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#Post#: 86881--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
DIR By: Nico Wilson
Date: March 21, 2022, 10:36 am
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--- Quote from: Monte link ---
>
> <snip>
> No mention if it can tell you if it is a try but presumably
would need a laser on the lines to know if it had crossed. All
very high tech.
>
--- End Quote ---
I wonder if some clever boffins can use electromagnetic
technology buried in the try line to determine if there's been a
try. Perhaps similar to the technology that stops supermarket
trolleys being taken out of the car park.
#Post#: 86882--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
DIR By: Monte
Date: March 21, 2022, 10:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Nico Wilson link ---
>
> I wonder if some clever boffins can use electromagnetic
technology buried in the try line to determine if there's been a
try. Perhaps similar to the technology that stops supermarket
trolleys being taken out of the car park.
>
--- End Quote ---
I wonder if you can nobble it and make the smart technology work
to stop it scoring tries or make it register forward pass when
we play Sarries/Tigers? 😁
Any boffins out there?
#Post#: 86885--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
DIR By: Nico Wilson
Date: March 21, 2022, 11:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Monte link ---
>
>
> I wonder if you can nobble it and make the smart technology
work to stop it scoring tries or make it register forward pass
when we play Sarries/Tigers? 😁
> Any boffins out there?
>
--- End Quote ---
For this we'd need a reversible electromagnet.
It would need to pull the ball forwards when being passed by
Tigers/Salarycens, and push it back when it came close to the
try line.
I wonder if we could also use electromagnets to improve our
kicks..........
#Post#: 86888--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
DIR By: Treecko
Date: March 21, 2022, 11:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> It's not as simple as "oh we're tracking the ball now, we can
always see when it goes forward" because 90% of passes go
"forward" in that sense :-)
>
--- End Quote ---
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding was
that a pass is forward if its acceleration is forward, rather
than if its velocity is forward. If so, then it should be
relatively easy to detect a forward pass as that the ball
constantly measures acceleration.
#Post#: 86889--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
DIR By: Treecko
Date: March 21, 2022, 11:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Nico Wilson link ---
>
> For this we'd need a reversible electromagnet.
>
> It would need to pull the ball forwards when being passed by
Tigers/Salarycens, and push it back when it came close to the
try line.
>
> I wonder if we could also use electromagnets to improve our
kicks..........
>
--- End Quote ---
I think physically moving the ball with electromagnets might
prove difficult, given that the ball is neither magnetic nor
charged. Are there any military experts here who can advise us
on the proper use of electronic warfare in order to influence
rugby matches?
#Post#: 86892--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: March 21, 2022, 12:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Treecko link ---
>
> Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding was
that a pass is forward if its acceleration is forward, rather
than if its velocity is forward. If so, then it should be
relatively easy to detect a forward pass as that the ball
constantly measures acceleration.
>
--- End Quote ---
Can't see that, personally.
Apart from it not being mentioned in the laws, l can't see how a
ball could accelerate after being passed unless caught by a very
strong wind
#Post#: 86893--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: March 21, 2022, 12:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Treecko link ---
>
> Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding was
that a pass is forward if its acceleration is forward, rather
than if its velocity is forward. If so, then it should be
relatively easy to detect a forward pass as that the ball
constantly measures acceleration.
>
--- End Quote ---
Acceleration is just the change in velocity. The act of passing
the ball is always going to involve that. I get what you're
saying - if the ball suddenly starts moving towards the
goal-line faster than before it was released, you could use that
to infer a forward pass*. You'd need to be certain that it's
perfectly calibrated to know what "forward" is in this context
(i.e. the orientation - where the goal lines are) and that the
measurements are accurate enough to use as a legal aid rather
than just crowd entertainment [my biggest doubt, here]. Trouble
is, the law isn't about the change in velocity and instead is
refereed in respect to "angle of the hands", while the law as
written is completely different again and is seemingly far more
strict.
I think it's very unlikely they'll change the law to cater for
what the combination of position tracking &
velocity/acceleration tracking says, not least because it's a
technology that will not be available for the vast majority of
participants in the sport...
* A physicist or mathemetician could well point out an obvious
flaw here, I am neither
#Post#: 86895--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: March 21, 2022, 12:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Brown Bottle link ---
>
> Can't see that, personally.
>
> Apart from it not being mentioned in the laws, l can't see how
a ball could accelerate after being passed unless caught by a
very strong wind
>
--- End Quote ---
His point is that if you are running with the ball, the ball is
travelling at x velocity - velocity being speed in a certain
direction - with respect to the tryline. If you then pass the
ball forward, theoretically you've made the forward [i.e.
towards the tryling] velocity of the ball increase. It doesn't
have to accelerate constantly, it just needs to be a positive
change in velocity with respect to the tryline when the pass is
initially thrown.
I may be explaining this badly, but I believe that's Treecko's
point. If you are running at 8 metres/sec and pass the ball
slightly forward, it should be travelling at > 8 metres per sec
towards the tryline when it leaves the hands.
I am a noted maths idiot, though.
(yes yes, I know, "not just maths")
#Post#: 86897--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: March 21, 2022, 12:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
JG - I understand the vector calculations. I've banged in about
them enough on here. 😁
But acceleration is a change in rate of velocity. There needs to
be a force involved in order to achieve that. That's why I
mentioned a very strong wind. Generally the forces acting on the
ball once passed are all negative - gravity and wind resistance.
Update:
Actually I think I see what you mean - the force being the
forward element of the pass immediately at the point it leaves
the players hands.
#Post#: 86899--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
DIR By: Nico Wilson
Date: March 21, 2022, 12:33 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Treecko link ---
>
> I think physically moving the ball with electromagnets might
prove difficult, given that the ball is neither magnetic nor
charged. Are there any military experts here who can advise us
on the proper use of electronic warfare in order to influence
rugby matches?
>
--- End Quote ---
Jamming the opposition's radios so the coaches can't pass
messages to the players via the water carriers.
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