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       #Post#: 86881--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
   DIR By: Nico Wilson
       Date: March 21, 2022, 10:36 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Monte link ---
       >
       > <snip>
       > No mention if it can tell you if it is a try but presumably
       would need a laser on the lines to know if it had crossed. All
       very high tech.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I wonder if some clever boffins can use electromagnetic
       technology buried in the try line to determine if there's been a
       try. Perhaps similar to the technology that stops supermarket
       trolleys being taken out of the car park.
       #Post#: 86882--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
   DIR By: Monte
       Date: March 21, 2022, 10:48 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Nico Wilson link ---
       >
       > I wonder if some clever boffins can use electromagnetic
       technology buried in the try line to determine if there's been a
       try. Perhaps similar to the technology that stops supermarket
       trolleys being taken out of the car park.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I wonder if you can nobble it and make the smart technology work
       to stop it scoring tries or make it register forward pass when
       we play Sarries/Tigers? &#128513;
       Any boffins out there?
       #Post#: 86885--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
   DIR By: Nico Wilson
       Date: March 21, 2022, 11:14 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Monte link ---
       >
       >
       > I wonder if you can nobble it and make the smart technology
       work to stop it scoring tries or make it register forward pass
       when we play Sarries/Tigers? &#128513;
       > Any boffins out there?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       For this we'd need a reversible electromagnet.
       It would need to pull the ball forwards when being passed by
       Tigers/Salarycens, and push it back when it came close to the
       try line.
       I wonder if we could also use electromagnets to improve our
       kicks..........
       #Post#: 86888--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
   DIR By: Treecko
       Date: March 21, 2022, 11:25 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
       >
       > It's not as simple as "oh we're tracking the ball now, we can
       always see when it goes forward" because 90% of passes go
       "forward" in that sense :-)
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding was
       that a pass is forward if its acceleration is forward, rather
       than if its velocity is forward. If so, then it should be
       relatively easy to detect a forward pass as that the ball
       constantly measures acceleration.
       #Post#: 86889--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
   DIR By: Treecko
       Date: March 21, 2022, 11:32 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Nico Wilson link ---
       >
       > For this we'd need a reversible electromagnet.
       >
       > It would need to pull the ball forwards when being passed by
       Tigers/Salarycens, and push it back when it came close to the
       try line.
       >
       > I wonder if we could also use electromagnets to improve our
       kicks..........
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I think physically moving the ball with electromagnets might
       prove difficult, given that the ball is neither magnetic nor
       charged. Are there any military experts here who can advise us
       on the proper use of electronic warfare in order to influence
       rugby matches?
       #Post#: 86892--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
   DIR By: Brown Bottle
       Date: March 21, 2022, 12:07 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Treecko link ---
       >
       > Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding was
       that a pass is forward if its acceleration is forward, rather
       than if its velocity is forward. If so, then it should be
       relatively easy to detect a forward pass as that the ball
       constantly measures acceleration.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Can't see that, personally.
       Apart from it not being mentioned in the laws, l can't see how a
       ball could accelerate after being passed unless caught by a very
       strong wind
       #Post#: 86893--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
   DIR By: JammyGit
       Date: March 21, 2022, 12:08 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Treecko link ---
       >
       > Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding was
       that a pass is forward if its acceleration is forward, rather
       than if its velocity is forward. If so, then it should be
       relatively easy to detect a forward pass as that the ball
       constantly measures acceleration.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Acceleration is just the change in velocity. The act of passing
       the ball is always going to involve that. I get what you're
       saying - if the ball suddenly starts moving towards the
       goal-line faster than before it was released, you could use that
       to infer a forward pass*. You'd need to be certain that it's
       perfectly calibrated to know what "forward" is in this context
       (i.e. the orientation - where the goal lines are) and that the
       measurements are accurate enough to use as a legal aid rather
       than just crowd entertainment [my biggest doubt, here]. Trouble
       is, the law isn't about the change in velocity and instead is
       refereed in respect to "angle of the hands", while the law as
       written is completely different again and is seemingly far more
       strict.
       I think it's very unlikely they'll change the law to cater for
       what the combination of position tracking &
       velocity/acceleration tracking says, not least because it's a
       technology that will not be available for the vast majority of
       participants in the sport...
       * A physicist or mathemetician could well point out an obvious
       flaw here, I am neither
       #Post#: 86895--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
   DIR By: JammyGit
       Date: March 21, 2022, 12:11 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Brown Bottle link ---
       >
       > Can't see that, personally.
       >
       > Apart from it not being mentioned in the laws, l can't see how
       a ball could accelerate after being passed unless caught by a
       very strong wind
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       His point is that if you are running with the ball, the ball is
       travelling at x velocity - velocity being speed in a certain
       direction - with respect to the tryline. If you then pass the
       ball forward, theoretically you've made the forward [i.e.
       towards the tryling] velocity of the ball increase. It doesn't
       have to accelerate constantly, it just needs to be a positive
       change in velocity with respect to the tryline when the pass is
       initially thrown.
       I may be explaining this badly, but I believe that's Treecko's
       point. If you are running at 8 metres/sec and pass the ball
       slightly forward, it should be travelling at > 8 metres per sec
       towards the tryline when it leaves the hands.
       I am a noted maths idiot, though.
       (yes yes, I know, "not just maths")
       #Post#: 86897--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
   DIR By: Brown Bottle
       Date: March 21, 2022, 12:15 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       JG - I understand the vector calculations. I've banged in about
       them enough on here. &#128513;
       But acceleration is a change in rate of velocity. There needs to
       be a force involved in order to achieve that. That's why I
       mentioned a very strong wind. Generally the forces acting on the
       ball once passed are all negative - gravity and wind resistance.
       Update:
       Actually I think I see what you mean - the force being the
       forward element of the pass immediately at the point it leaves
       the players hands.
       #Post#: 86899--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
   DIR By: Nico Wilson
       Date: March 21, 2022, 12:33 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Treecko link ---
       >
       > I think physically moving the ball with electromagnets might
       prove difficult, given that the ball is neither magnetic nor
       charged. Are there any military experts here who can advise us
       on the proper use of electronic warfare in order to influence
       rugby matches?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Jamming the opposition's radios so the coaches can't pass
       messages to the players via the water carriers.
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