URI:
   DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       ComeAllWithin (Harlequins Rugby)
  HTML https://comeallwithin.createaforum.com
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       *****************************************************
   DIR Return to: ComeAllWithin Board
       *****************************************************
       #Post#: 86567--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Another Cap break
   DIR By: DOK
       Date: March 16, 2022, 8:55 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Saracens were at least able to claim that they believed their
       innovative schemes were legal under the salary cap. But
       Leicester looks like someone took a close look at the salary cap
       regulations and deliberately broke them, but only to a minor
       degree. I'm not sure that isn't worse.
       #Post#: 86569--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Another Cap break
   DIR By: Quintron
       Date: March 16, 2022, 9:01 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       'Same old Tigers, always cheating!'
       #Post#: 86573--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Another Cap break
   DIR By: MadMax
       Date: March 16, 2022, 9:45 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: DOK link ---
       >
       > Saracens were at least able to claim that they believed their
       innovative schemes were legal under the salary cap. But
       Leicester looks like someone took a close look at the salary cap
       regulations and deliberately broke them, but only to a minor
       degree. I'm not sure that isn't worse.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Yes but the Big Cheats were told their cheating (sorry
       innovative schemes) was illegal once and then continued with
       more cheating (sorry innovative schemes) and then when told
       these were illegal they refused to open their books and kept all
       those who orchestrated the cheating (sorry innovative schemes)
       in position so I personally reckon it was worse than that
       carried out by the Little Cheats but neither club did themselves
       any favours.
       #Post#: 86574--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Another Cap break
   DIR By: never sleep
       Date: March 16, 2022, 10:09 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: MadMax link ---
       >
       > Yes but the Big Cheats were told their cheating (sorry
       innovative schemes)
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Shouldn't we refer to them as "The Big Innovative Schemers"
       #Post#: 86577--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Another Cap break
   DIR By: Quinten Poulsen
       Date: March 16, 2022, 10:58 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Innovative schemes still need (and needed) to be reported under
       the regulations.
       #Post#: 86582--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Another Cap break
   DIR By: Quinky
       Date: March 16, 2022, 11:25 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: MadMax link ---
       >
       > Yes but the Big Cheats were told their cheating (sorry
       innovative schemes) was illegal once and then continued with
       more cheating (sorry innovative schemes) and then when told
       these were illegal they refused to open their books and kept all
       those who orchestrated the cheating (sorry innovative schemes)
       in position so I personally reckon it was worse than that
       carried out by the Little Cheats but neither club did themselves
       any favours.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Apart from their (very reliable) word, is there any proof that
       they were advised their schemes were legal? Or was it a case of
       "nothing to see here, move along, my friend said it's OK so I
       don't need to show you"?
       #Post#: 86583--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Another Cap break
   DIR By: championes
       Date: March 16, 2022, 12:13 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
       >
       > You've explained for yourself exactly why there was no points
       deduction. Because they kept it below the level where it becomes
       more than a fine. You can't point the finger at them for doing
       that (presumably deliberately) and then claim it's a conspiracy
       that they uh, didn't get a bigger punishment they would have had
       if they'd cheated more...
       >
       > Tigers deserve a lot of criticism for this. Without Saracens
       having done their thing, I think there'd be a lot of outrage
       about this. But Saracens smashed the salary cap for years - and
       the first time round threatened to drag everyone into legal
       action, forced a higher salary cap and the sweeping under the
       carpet of the years of cheating, only to then cheat to a massive
       extent _again_ and accepting relegation rather than coming clean
       and opening their books for investigation.
       >
       > There's really no comparison to be made here.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       It’s a scale isn’t it? They’ve broken the rules just enough to
       make sure it couldn’t beach the threshold - right in the middle
       of the Sarries scandal.
       So it’s not about how appalling the unforgivable cheats of
       Sarries are - but about where the scale begins.
       Tigers didn’t do this by accident or just once, or during a
       period where they could claim ignorance of the rules - since the
       spotlight was firmly on this kind of rule breaking.
       Either way as there’s no deductions - PRL gets to move on once
       again pretending all is well.
       I’m not saying Tigers should be relegated - the point here is
       about governance.
       As with promotion/relegation there seems to be an expectation
       the world will just move on.
       It doesn’t stink - but it smells.
       #Post#: 86587--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Another Cap break
   DIR By: poorfour
       Date: March 16, 2022, 12:45 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: championes link ---
       >
       > It’s a scale isn’t it? They’ve broken the rules just enough to
       make sure it couldn’t beach the threshold - right in the middle
       of the Sarries scandal.
       >
       > So it’s not about how appalling the unforgivable cheats of
       Sarries are - but about where the scale begins.
       >
       > Tigers didn’t do this by accident or just once, or during a
       period where they could claim ignorance of the rules - since the
       spotlight was firmly on this kind of rule breaking.
       >
       > Either way as there’s no deductions - PRL gets to move on once
       again pretending all is well.
       >
       > I’m not saying Tigers should be relegated - the point here is
       about governance.
       >
       > As with promotion/relegation there seems to be an expectation
       the world will just move on.
       >
       > It doesn’t stink - but it smells.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I doubt PRL are any happier about this than we fans are... but
       Tigers were very smart about it. The rules said that within a
       given limit the sanction would be a fine rather than points, and
       they stayed within that limit. The PRL - which remember is
       basically just the club owners - agreed the framework so don't
       have a leg to stand on pushing for anything more.
       But I'd not be surprised if the framework gets tightened up a
       bit in the wake of this. A reasonable bet would be that repeated
       breaches and non-disclosure over an extended period will attract
       points deduction unless there are clear extenuating
       circumstances.
       #Post#: 86588--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Another Cap break
   DIR By: Quinten Poulsen
       Date: March 16, 2022, 12:46 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: championes link ---
       >
       > It’s a scale isn’t it? They’ve broken the rules just enough to
       make sure it couldn’t beach the threshold
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I've seen this said elsewhere but with no reference to the data
       - is it really true?
       #Post#: 86592--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Another Cap break
   DIR By: poorfour
       Date: March 16, 2022, 1:30 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Quinten Poulsen link ---
       >
       > I've seen this said elsewhere but with no reference to the
       data - is it really true?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Basically. The framework has a sliding scale that says "if
       you're over it up to x you pay a 'tax' of 50p per £1 over, if
       it's between x and y the 'tax' is £1 per £1, above y the
       sanctions get more serious". Tigers are clearly within y (though
       have been over both the cap and x in multiple years). All very
       circumstantial, but it looks like a deliberate ruse to be
       naughty but not so naughty it incurs more than a financial
       penalty
       *****************************************************
       Page 3 of 5
   DIR Previous Page
   DIR Next Page