DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
ComeAllWithin (Harlequins Rugby)
HTML https://comeallwithin.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: ComeAllWithin Board
*****************************************************
#Post#: 86166--------------------------------------------------
Marcus Smith is England long-term attack leader at 10
DIR By: DOK
Date: March 11, 2022, 4:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
England coach Martin Gleeson is trying to revolutionise the
England attack by deconstructing and rebuilding their game with
Marcus Smith as the focal point
HTML https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-10595865/Coach-Martin-Gleeson-trying-revolutionise-Englands-attack-admits-clicked-yet.html
And if Farrell hadn't been injured, would he still be doing
this?
#Post#: 86167--------------------------------------------------
Re: Marcus Smith is England long-term attack leader at 10
DIR By: poorfour
Date: March 11, 2022, 4:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DOK link ---
>
> England coach Martin Gleeson is trying to revolutionise the
England attack by deconstructing and rebuilding their game with
Marcus Smith as the focal point
HTML https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-10595865/Coach-Martin-Gleeson-trying-revolutionise-Englands-attack-admits-clicked-yet.html
>
> And if Farrell hadn't been injured, would he still be doing
this?
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes. But I think England might be playing better. I suspect that
Farrell would fulfil the role he sometimes filled with Ford,
running the phase play on slow ball so that Ford could organise
the attack for the next phase.
England are aiming for an attack where Marcus can attack off any
phase, but at the moment they don't consistently have the
understanding to give him options to exploit. Having Farrell at
12 would give them an alternative playmaker who can go to first
receiver when it's not working and he does that better than
Slade has in the last few matches.
People throw a lot of shade at Farrell, but there is a reason
that he's been in pretty much every England or Lions squad where
he's not been injured for the past 10 years. We haven't really
seen him playing with Smith, but as long as he was taking the
job of freeing up Smith to attack, I'd have no problem with him
being there.
#Post#: 86168--------------------------------------------------
Re: Marcus Smith is England long-term attack leader at 10
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: March 11, 2022, 4:49 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Well yeah. The reason is he "drives standards", provides
leadership on and off the pitch, and is an excellent tackler and
kicker. His attacking play is not a highlight, and his Lions
tours have been pretty rubbish.
Gleeson talks a good game but he's not regarded well among rugby
league fans and didn't seem to do much at Wasps. It's bizarre we
have such a non-entity in an important role for England, but I
guess that's the problem with Eddie Jones and how he treats
coaches.
We saw just how awkward it looked when Smith tried to play with
Farrell. Everything died or slowed down when it got to 12.
#Post#: 86185--------------------------------------------------
Re: Marcus Smith is England long-term attack leader at 10
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: March 11, 2022, 9:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> I suspect that Farrell would fulfil the role he sometimes
filled with Ford, running the phase play on slow ball so that
Ford could organise the attack for the next phase.
>
--- End Quote ---
I've heard this before. It's non-sensical. Smith is so good
because he turns slow ball into quick ball with his vision. If
he's hidden on the wing while Farrell "handles" things then it
either remains slow, or more likely gets booted away.
#Post#: 86187--------------------------------------------------
Re: Marcus Smith is England long-term attack leader at 10
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: March 11, 2022, 9:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
"The national team are striving to deconstruct and rebuild their
game; to operate without the rigid structures, patterns and
formations which are staples at Test level."
This is just utterly laughable stuff.
They are staples at test level in England, currently. Lots of
other countries operate within them as well because they are
either bloody good at it (SA) or not very well coached/not very
good.
Let's not pretend that England are the first to try and play an
expansive game at intl level, or indeed that they even are. The
very fact that they are talking "pioneering" simply because
they've dropped an absolute speed hump for a decent player at 10
tells you all you need to know.
While Eddie remains in charge you can be damn sure there's no
appetite whatsoever to really evolve. Beastings will continue,
reverting to type and picking malleable trundlers will continue.
As Jammy says, appointing this no-mark to such a vital role is a
real indictment.
#Post#: 86188--------------------------------------------------
Re: Marcus Smith is England long-term attack leader at 10
DIR By: poorfour
Date: March 11, 2022, 10:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RodneyRegis link ---
>
> I've heard this before. It's non-sensical. Smith is so good
because he turns slow ball into quick ball with his vision. If
he's hidden on the wing while Farrell "handles" things then it
either remains slow, or more likely gets booted away.
>
--- End Quote ---
What we saw against Wales - repeatedly - was Smith having to run
the ball himself because he looked around and no-one was in
position to receive it. That understanding will take time, but
until then having a second playmaker who can run the phases
until people are in position is anything but nonsensical.
#Post#: 86189--------------------------------------------------
Re: Marcus Smith is England long-term attack leader at 10
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: March 11, 2022, 10:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> What we saw against Wales - repeatedly - was Smith having to
run the ball himself because he looked around and no-one was in
position to receive it. That understanding will take time, but
until then having a second playmaker who can run the phases
until people are in position is anything but nonsensical.
>
--- End Quote ---
I really don't think that's what we saw. We saw Marcus running
at weak defenders / gaps / half gaps. Which is what Marcus does.
Who's the playmaker when Marcus isn't available? Erm, the 9. He
directs things. It takes all of two forward carries at most
before Marcus is back in the slot. And Slade is a former 10 with
a great passing range playing at 12.
Marcus carried it all of 7 times for 50m, which is a pretty
decent return - he certainly wasn't running into brick walls.
There were certainly a couple of occasions where the outside
blitz cut off his options, but that will happen against a team
like Wales regardless of who's at 10 and who's at 12. It's not
like it didn't happen to the Ford/Farrell combo a lot.
I'd also add that Marcus - like most 10s - gets the ball when he
wants it. If he gets the ball with no support / no options,
that's at least partly his fault.
#Post#: 86193--------------------------------------------------
Re: Marcus Smith is England long-term attack leader at 10
DIR By: Treecko
Date: March 11, 2022, 11:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RodneyRegis link ---
>
> "The national team are striving to deconstruct and rebuild
their game; to operate without the rigid structures, patterns
and formations which are staples at Test level."
>
> This is just utterly laughable stuff.
>
> They are staples at test level in England, currently. Lots of
other countries operate within them as well because they are
either bloody good at it (SA) or not very well coached/not very
good.
>
> Let's not pretend that England are the first to try and play
an expansive game at intl level, or indeed that they even are.
The very fact that they are talking "pioneering" simply because
they've dropped an absolute speed hump for a decent player at 10
tells you all you need to know.
>
>
> While Eddie remains in charge you can be damn sure there's no
appetite whatsoever to really evolve. Beastings will continue,
reverting to type and picking malleable trundlers will continue.
>
> As Jammy says, appointing this no-mark to such a vital role is
a real indictment.
>
--- End Quote ---
You've missed the point of the article. England aren't claiming
to be the first to try and play an expansive game at
international level, that'd obviously be ridiculous. What it's
saying is that rather than playing in a strict forwards
structure (like Ireland and Wales playing a 1-3-2-2 or France
playing a 1-3-3-1 structure), England are instead picking a
structure for their first 2-3 phases to achieve quick ball and
then doing away with having a set structure altogether, and
instead letting Smith and Slade decide where each player should
be depending on what's in front of them. This is something that
has not been tried at international level before, and you don't
need to be a genius to see why this might take a bit more time
to really settle into than if you just picked a formation to
play within.
If you want a really clear example of what England are trying to
do, watch the last passage of Italy v England when England has
Smith-Ford-Slade on the pitch. In case you don't remember,
England went the length of the pitch just through phase play,
something which really doesn't happen very often at
international level (yes, even against Italy). Personally, I
don't think it's a coincidence that England's most fluid passage
of attack this 6N has happened when England had three
organisers/distributors on the pitch.
Or if you just want to keep having a go at EJ for the sake of
having a go at EJ, then go ahead, don't let any actual analysis
of the game get in your way!
#Post#: 86200--------------------------------------------------
Re: Marcus Smith is England long-term attack leader at 10
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: March 11, 2022, 5:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, are you saying that no one has tried unstructured play
before? The NZ sides of Cruden and Barrett would disagree, as
would a couple of the Australian sides. And that's ignoring how
the modern structured attack is a fairly new phenomenon anyway.
#Post#: 86201--------------------------------------------------
Re: Marcus Smith is England long-term attack leader at 10
DIR By: Treecko
Date: March 11, 2022, 6:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Firstly, modern attacking structures were invented in response
to modern defensive structures that make unstructured play in
the way you're describing much, much more difficult. Secondly,
I'm not even saying that England are trying to play without
structure - you need structure in order to combat modern
defenses. What I'm saying is that England are playing without a
pre-determined structure, so while France, for example, will
always set in a 1-3-3-1, England would assess the situation and
Smith/Slade would decide on where the forwards need to be for
the next few phases, based on how the defense is aligned.
It might help if I give an example of how the typical approach
and how England's approach work. A team using a 1-3-3-1 would
have their playmakers look at where their forwards are on the
pitch, and organise them into pods based on that structure, and
they would set their forwards into that structure regardless of
how the defense is aligned. On the other hand, with England,
Smith and Slade have to look at the defense, and then decide
where to set up the pods, so for example they might call for a
3-pod on the openside and a 2-pod on the blindside, and then
they have to constantly reassess where to best deploy their
forwards as they go through the phases.
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 4
DIR Next Page