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#Post#: 85585--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is it time to kick Italy out of the six nations
DIR By: poorfour
Date: February 28, 2022, 7:09 am
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Firstly, I believe Italy are part-owners of the tournament, so
it's gonna be tough to kick them out even if you wanted to.
Secondly, they make sense to include in revenue terms, because
they offer a big, wealthy, sports-watching market that's easy to
get to. South Africa arguably offer the same, but there's a
significant commercial risk in switching even if you could solve
for the ownership question.
Thirdly, the big change that happened in Italy under Conor
O'Shea was putting in place a proper development structure, not
just for players but also for coaches and other parts of the
system. That's only just starting to bear fruit with players
like Garbisi coming through, but should start to deliver a much
stronger pool of better coached players over the course of the
decade.
That sounds like a long time to wait, but it's basically a
generation of players. By comparison, look at the English
academy system. It only really started being consistent and
professional by about 2012 - I had a friend with a son in an
academy a couple of years after that who said that the
then-current crop of England international had emerged more by
luck than judgement, and that there was a "lost generation" of
players who were already being outstripped by the next wave of
players coming through.
If you look at the quality of the current generation of 22-25
year olds, there are far more English players who look ready for
international rugby than in previous generations (albeit with
some odd gaps, such as the inability to produce a decent 12).
Italy are building towards that.
#Post#: 85587--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is it time to kick Italy out of the six nations
DIR By: Bolly-Quin
Date: February 28, 2022, 8:22 am
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--- Quote from: East Sussex Chris link ---
>
> No one else are you mad? Georgia and South Africa would bite
their hand off to be included
>
--- End Quote ---
~ 8/10 times Italy would beat Georgia - they did in their last
fixture, but a playoff would be a way around it except as others
have mentioned, Italy have "bought into" the 6Ns, and it would
have to be renegotiated which, in itself, isn't/shouldn't be the
determinator, but I think Italy will get better. They may never
get as good as the other 5Ns, but they have had some memorable
results against the other teams and even had England worried a
few times.
S. Africa are a southern hemisphere side and as I and others
have argued previously, if they broke into the 6N (and out of
the present 4N or whatever they call it), then the world rugby
would be in hiatus and a world rugby event would probably take
over and we'd lose the 6N altogether...
#Post#: 85588--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is it time to kick Italy out of the six nations
DIR By: Fearless Fred
Date: February 28, 2022, 8:41 am
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I can't see there being an expansion of the 6 Nations. Adding
one team would mean going from 15 games to 21 games. You'd also
have to play games on the current fallow weekends just to fit it
all in. From a player welfare standpoint, it would be
horrendous.
If (and it's a big "if") there's promotion & relegation in the 6
Nations, I can envisage that whoever is in line for promotion
will want to negotiate that p&r happens every two years. If,
say, Italy were to be relegated next season & Georgia promoted
in their place, Georgia would only get two home fixtures when
they came up, as opposed to the three home fixtures were it to
happen this season. Financially they will push hard that they be
allowed to have at least the right to hold home fixtures against
all the other sides, which would mean being in the competition
for two seasons. I think they would have a fair point too.
#Post#: 85589--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is it time to kick Italy out of the six nations
DIR By: Nico Wilson
Date: February 28, 2022, 9:05 am
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In the latest World Rugby rankings, Georgia is ranked 13 and
Italy is ranked 14. So could the Six Nations be expanded to the
Seven Nations by including Georgia?
#Post#: 85590--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is it time to kick Italy out of the six nations
DIR By: Monte
Date: February 28, 2022, 9:19 am
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You all seem to be forgetting one thing the fans. Fans travel to
all or any of the current destinations. Who is going to Tbilisi
in February? SA for the weekend will not include many
particularly if it is Cape Town the best place to gold a rugby
match.
#Post#: 85591--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is it time to kick Italy out of the six nations
DIR By: Fearless Fred
Date: February 28, 2022, 10:16 am
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--- Quote from: Nico Wilson link ---
>
> In the latest World Rugby rankings, Georgia is ranked 13 and
Italy is ranked 14. So could the Six Nations be expanded to the
Seven Nations by including Georgia?
>
--- End Quote ---
I very much doubt it as I said in my post above yours. There's
already concern about player welfare. Adding in another game,
most likely played during one of the current fallow weeks only
exacerbates the issue. Factor in the squeeze on club squads due
to the reduced salary cap in the UK and more games due to league
expansion, and there'll be pushback over any expansion to 7
teams by club owners and Players unions.
--- Quote from: Monte link ---
>
> You all seem to be forgetting one thing the fans. Fans travel
to all or any of the current destinations. Who is going to
Tbilisi in February? SA for the weekend will not include many
particularly if it is Cape Town the best place to gold a rugby
match.
>
--- End Quote ---
Tbilisi is most likely cheaper & easier to get to than SA.
Looking at the current weather there this afternoon, it's not
too dissimilar to what we've got here today, maybe a couple of
degrees colder. Their stadium can hold more than the Aviva can,
and they regularly fill it for the big games against Romania.
I'm certain that they'd love the chance to host 6 Nations teams
& would pack the place out.
#Post#: 85593--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is it time to kick Italy out of the six nations
DIR By: Monte
Date: February 28, 2022, 11:49 am
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Tbilisi time difference is +4 hours and believe me February is
raw in Tbilisi very dry very cold with a raw wind. I really
enjoyed my visit to Georgia in May but time difference and
length of flight is over 7 hours. At present time there are no
direct flights but when BA flies there direct it is usually
evening departure. For a week’s holiday in spring great place
and it is as cheap as SA when you get there and the beer and
wine excellent. But it is not a winter weekend destination.
#Post#: 85594--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is it time to kick Italy out of the six nations
DIR By: SwindonQuin
Date: February 28, 2022, 12:02 pm
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I think the bigger question is why Russia haven't been thrown
out of the rugby world cup qualification, unless I've missed a
press release.
FIFA, UEFA and the IOC have kicked out Russia and quite rightly,
why haven't the IRB!?
Happy to be corrected on this!
#Post#: 85596--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is it time to kick Italy out of the six nations
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: February 28, 2022, 12:32 pm
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--- Quote from: SwindonQuin link ---
>
> I think the bigger question is why Russia haven't been thrown
out of the rugby world cup qualification, unless I've missed a
press release.
>
> FIFA, UEFA and the IOC have kicked out Russia and quite
rightly, why haven't the IRB!?
>
> Happy to be corrected on this!
>
--- End Quote ---
Surely that's off topic for this thread.
#Post#: 85597--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is it time to kick Italy out of the six nations
DIR By: Nico Wilson
Date: February 28, 2022, 1:01 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Fearless Fred link ---
>
> I very much doubt it as I said in my post above yours.
>
--- End Quote ---
Oops. Time for me to wake up I think.
--- Quote from: Fearless Fred link ---
>
> There's already concern about player welfare. Adding in
another game, most likely played during one of the current
fallow weeks only exacerbates the issue. Factor in the squeeze
on club squads due to the reduced salary cap in the UK and more
games due to league expansion, and there'll be pushback over any
expansion to 7 teams by club owners and Players unions.
>
--- End Quote ---
I see where you are coming from.
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