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#Post#: 85531--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T England v Wales
DIR By: Keith Jenner
Date: February 26, 2022, 1:22 pm
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--- Quote from: Quintron link ---
>
> Dommers playing well
>
--- End Quote ---
Was man of the match for me.
#Post#: 85532--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T England v Wales
DIR By: T-Bone
Date: February 26, 2022, 1:44 pm
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Pretty average game and performance by England. Sinckler looks
off the pace.
#Post#: 85533--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T England v Wales
DIR By: Quintron
Date: February 26, 2022, 3:24 pm
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Smith has scored 48 of England’s 73 points this 6 Nations
#Post#: 85534--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T England v Wales
DIR By: The Kid
Date: February 26, 2022, 4:21 pm
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This will be a long post, but need to get it out somewhere after
watching at HQ in frustration. We were lucky to get away with
that and on another day, Wales would have beaten us.
Marcus was never player of the match and actually had quite a
poor game that he can learn a lot from, although a lot depends
on what he is being asked to do which is different to what we
are used to (more on this later). Dombrandt on the other hand
was immense and probably deserved it over him. The referee (who
if I recall is the same guy who butchered the end of the Castres
game) was universally dreadful by way of both interpretation,
inconsistency and completely inept management of the clock. May
we never see his like again.
The broader concerns I have with England are threefold;
selection and the philosophy behind it, whatever it is this “New
England” is trying to do in attack and lack of leadership on the
field. These are working hypotheses based on what I’ve seen and
interpreted and all three worry me going into the world cup.
Firstly, selection. It’s patently clear that England don’t have
enough outside backs who are either lightning fast strike
threats or able to straighten the line. For the former, this was
May (now 31, and injured) and Watson (on his third ACL injury)
at RWC 2019 and while Nowell and Malins are skilful players they
aren’t going to burn you on the outside or crush you. For the
latter, it was Tuilagi (who is literally always injured).
Steward gives you an element of this but he’s a fullback and
your best player in the air, so you use him sparingly.
When both of these elements are missing, you don’t have the
ability, at the top level, to switch things up on the outside.
Teams are taking the kickpass away when Marcus is there, but
with no one to straighten it or burn on the outside, teams key
in on the forwards and the backs don’t get it done, because they
can’t execute as well as the guys mentioned above (not their
fault, they have other skills, more on this later). There is no
good answer to this and England need to find some players who
can do this who aren’t the names above if we are going to get
anywhere at the world cup if they want to keep playing the same
way.
It’s clear from selection of players out of position that Jones
believes firmly that the way the game is developing is that
players now have all-round skill sets that transcend numbers on
the back of shirts. Their response is to pick players with broad
skill sets and use them interchangeably in attack. He may be
right, he may be wrong, but where as recently as 10 years ago it
would be out of the ordinary to use props as first receivers in
attack, it’s now part and parcel of the game.
Look at the players Jones selects. Outside of true specialists
(Front row, 9 and 10), nearly all of them cover multiple
positions. We’ve seen Tuilagi on the wing, Curry at 8, three
locks and two opensides. Today’s backline had no fewer than four
players who could play fullback primarily in it and a pack had
three locks and two eights and no flankers in the second half.
It rightly baffles people.
This positionlessness has always been implicit in what Jones
does, but more so now than ever before. He believes, rightly or
wrongly that skill sets are merging that in attack, you can use
forwards to distribute in the short game interchangeably with
backs and position backs interchangeably to be able to get the
best out of them. Tuilagi might wear 14, but lines up at 12
situationally with Slade dropping into the backfield. Curry
binds at 8, but for all intents and purposes plays 7 with your
carrying coming from two lighter, faster props who are asked to
play 60-70 mins where other countries’ props play 50. The vision
is an all court game supported by players with broad skill sets,
not specialist finishers who play roles (see South Africa for a
really good example of this).
The problem is, this is really hard to structure unless you get
the personnel right, which by a mixture of bad luck and
circumstance, they can’t and/or don’t. Up front, adhering to the
Matt Proudfoot school of having three locks (see SA) means you
lose a faster carrier somewhere else. Playing lighter, more
mobile props makes you more dynamic but vulnerable against
bigger packs (I worry what this French eight might do to us) and
too many pivots without the ability to crash it up makes things
insubstantial and easier to contain.
With the lack of pace on the outside and direct running threats
in the backs, Englands attack becomes at best two dimensional,
relying on individual magic or forward based power game that has
carried us to three world cup finals in my lifetime. The
confused backfield doesn’t provide an alternative and we become
easy to defend. Marcus makes a lot of passes and occasionally
tries to goose his way through the line, but the structure
focused on power means a lot of what he can do at quins like put
a chip in or a kickpass is taken away as the players to execute
it won’t always be there. It’s hard to know what’s systemic and
what’s a deficiency as everything is just so confused back there
right now.
While we are better in defence as a result of having this all
court game where literally anyone wearing 1-8 is a threat over
the ball and to smash a ruck, the attack lacks structure with
the personnel we have and isn’t likely to succeed unless a
balance is found. This philosophy isn’t changing and teams like
France and South Africa who don’t do this are going to give us
real problems as they bring a clear picture of what each player
should be doing and then fresh players to execute it. Englands
philosophy works, but they aren’t executing well enough to make
it work now.
The third is leadership on the field. Exemplified, perhaps, by
the sin bin period today. There isn’t a confidence or anyone
with it to play the room as its dealt on the field.
Exhibit A: We are up 6-0 after 25 mins. Liam Wlliams kills the
ball on the line and gets binned. The ref is being pernickety
about the scrum, and the last one took four minutes.
Inexplicably, rather than bank the points and get back to half
way 9-0 with a 14 man advantage, We take the scrum. Sink bails
out of his bind and we lose another three minutes due to reset,
have three fewer points than you would otherwise have, and only
six minutes against 14 men rather than 9. Absolute madness.
There is, it seems, an instruction to control rather than apply
scoreboard pressure when you can, at basically whatever cost,
and it’s being too strictly stuck to. The lack of pragmatism
sees us leave points out there.
This would be different with Farrell there, and is why I’m open
to him starting again. I have no doubt that he’d have seen this
and taken the points. With scoreboard pressure, Marcus can cut
loose. Scoreboard pressure *is* control. The wider emphasis on
control, over pragmatism, remains a red flag prior to the world
cup and one that must be addressed if it’s not all to end in
tears.
The more I watch this iteration of England, the more I feel
Jones will be gone after the world cup. Ultimately though, I
don’t really see what he could be doing differently with what he
has. With the right personnel back, England could make the final
four at the world cup or second in this six nations but I don’t
see any more than that right now.
#Post#: 85537--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T England v Wales
DIR By: J Scott
Date: February 27, 2022, 2:34 am
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Not impressed. Nowell bottled against Cuthbert. Wales showed
what attack can look like while we stuttered. I’m sure when it
clicks it will be fine but not clicking this season I predict
two losses on the way.
#Post#: 85545--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T England v Wales
DIR By: DOK
Date: February 27, 2022, 5:36 am
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We might win against Ireland with home advantage (not that it
was much in evidence yesterday) but France's attack looked very
Quins like. Lots of short passes and runners on the shoulder.
Really doubt we've the defence to deal with that.
#Post#: 85546--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T England v Wales
DIR By: MaidstoneQuin
Date: February 27, 2022, 5:41 am
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Dombrandt was MOTM by a country mile with his carries. Marcus
only got it because he kicked the points, which for me isn’t
necessarily the best yard stick for motm.
I fear Ireland will be much more clinical than Wales.
I personally think Malins hasn’t shown enough why he deserves to
start. What HAS he done? Ewels is the same.
For all the song and dance about Nowells return, I barely knew
he was playing. No real breaks or carries.
Radwan for Malins, OHC for Nowell. Worth a go
#Post#: 85549--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T England v Wales
DIR By: Bayernquin
Date: February 27, 2022, 7:15 am
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To reply to the Kids analysis, I think the problem is simpler,
we have by far, even though we are often critical, the best
officiating in world rugby, our players are therefore
conditioned week in - week out to playing with the same
standards of refereeing, however come internationals they are
confronted with in or semi-competence and don't know how to deal
with it. This doesn't affect the others who are used to it, and
play on expecting no whistle or penalty, whereas we hesitate
before infringing. Thus we often see disjointed rugby from
England as most are thinking twice. Normally when we have a good
ref, we do well, unfortunately we seldom do. How to solve this
major problem is up to the team and coaches, but first they need
to acknowledge and accept it is a problem. If I could solve it
I'd be a candidate for Eddy's job, but 8 can't, so I'm not!
Also Daly should be nowhere near the squad, let alone the match
day team, apart from the very occasional 50m+ penalty he brings
absolutely nothing to the side.
#Post#: 85552--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T England v Wales
DIR By: raedarius
Date: February 27, 2022, 8:23 am
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I think that you're overstating consistency in the Premiership.
The distance between Foley's view of the breakdown and Pearce's
or CMK's is huge.
#Post#: 85553--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T England v Wales
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: February 27, 2022, 8:50 am
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Malins has done some fine work for England, both in the autumn
and last week. With a nothing midfield he's often having to
create something from nothing unless it's Marcus dealing with
him directly.
Slade/Daly does not work and Nowell is an empty shirt, as is
Ewels. Will Stuart offers us little.
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