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#Post#: 84309--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - English Championship
DIR By: PinguthePenQuin
Date: February 10, 2022, 10:32 am
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--- Quote from: Monte link ---
>
> But looking at it objectively Premiership rugby needs to cover
Cornwall, Yorkshire and other areas. I am sure we would all love
to see Cornish Pirates come up, but Cornwall is still messing
around with planning permission and the latest effort to turn
the new ground slightly has been refused as far as I am aware.
They are short of funds to build the original stadium and this
modification is essential. Dickie Evans, very sadly, who is the
main man is not well and without him I am not sure what happens.
Quins are going through a bonanza period at present but those
of us who have watched/supported for 20 years or more know this
doesn’t last forever. … don’t we!?
>
--- End Quote ---
As I said, the growth of the game would be aided by having a SW
team or another Northern team. But the league system doesn't
work that way. Either the system changes to spread the wealth
with the Championship clubs, or they move to regional
franchises. Neither are going to happen.
I've been a Quins supporter all my life and am in that awkward
position of supporting Quins or Ealing if they win promotion.
One has always been MY club, but the other I have a more
emotional attachment to having worn the jersey.
As a Quins fan, I've known many a barren year!
I think the best way to help Championship clubs is to drop the
Prem and Champ cups and reintroduce a cross league cup
tournament. Allow minnows to have their day and get them used to
playing Premiership teams. Also, it would generate more
advertisement £s and exposure for the Championship sides. This
also means when the relegation vs promotion game happens at the
end of the season, the Championship side are less overawed by
the event.
#Post#: 84311--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - English Championship
DIR By: stoquin
Date: February 10, 2022, 11:16 am
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A slight aside but am sure a year or so ago I read that
Yorkshire has produced more England players than any other
county, more people play Union than League in Yorkshire and
Yorkshire has more Union players than Scotland.
Of course I may have dreamt all this, of to you Fred for a fact
check and a few pie charts (mmm pies!!)
#Post#: 84318--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - English Championship
DIR By: Mayor West
Date: February 10, 2022, 12:27 pm
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When you say Yorkshire I assume you mean all of them together
which has a population greater than Scotland an economy bigger
than Wales and by far the largest land mass of any other county.
It’s population is way over 5 million so they have plenty to
choose from. It’s strange that they produce so many Union
players but their Union team hasn’t managed to rise to the
heights of other areas. I think there are still far more League
teams in Yorkshire though.
#Post#: 84321--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - English Championship
DIR By: Yareet
Date: February 10, 2022, 1:46 pm
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--- Quote from: Mayor West link ---
>
> I think there are still far more League teams in Yorkshire
though.
>
--- End Quote ---
Is that based on anything other than gut feel/presumption?
According the times RFL site
(
HTML https://www.rugby-league.com/competitions/national/national-conference-league/match-centre?tables&clear),<br
/>Yorkshire would appear to have 4 leagues.
The RFU site shows that Yorkshire has there are 3 leagues for
union and then league 4 is split into 4 regional mini leagues of
5 to 8 teams.
(
HTML https://www.englandrugby.com/fixtures-and-results/search-results?competition=1623&division=37318&season=2021-2022#table).
On face value, that could suggest similar numbers.
#Post#: 84326--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - English Championship
DIR By: Mayor West
Date: February 10, 2022, 4:21 pm
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It was more based on the two Union teams in the championship and
three more in Champ 1 against about 16 for League in its top
tiers.
#Post#: 84328--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - English Championship
DIR By: Yareet
Date: February 10, 2022, 5:42 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Mayor West link ---
>
> It was more based on the two Union teams in the championship
and three more in Champ 1 against about 16 for League in its top
tiers.
>
--- End Quote ---
I was thinking about this the other day and realised why for me
the number of Prem clubs in an area is a flawed measure of
rugby’s success.
Essentially, the Prem clubs have been based on two factors.
Firstly, which clubs happened to be in the top flight when rugby
went pro.
Exeter are continually cited as a success story I believe
because so few clubs have joined the top league since 1996 and
made it stick.
From Wikipedia:
--- Quote ---
> A total of 28 clubs have been involved in the top-flight since
the league's inception in the 1987–88 season. The most recent
club to make its debut in the Premiership was London Welsh,
which made their top flight debut in 2012–13.
>
> Four clubs—Bath, Gloucester, Leicester Tigers and Wasps—have
appeared in every season to date. Harlequins have only missed
the 2005–06 season. Six other clubs have appeared in at least 20
seasons: Saracens, Northampton, Sale, London Irish, Bristol and
Newcastle.
>
> Coventry, Liverpool St Helens, Moseley, Nottingham, Rosslyn
Park, Rugby and Waterloo only appeared during the amateur era,
whereas Exeter Chiefs, Leeds, London Welsh, Richmond, Rotherham
and Worcester have only appeared during the professional era.
--- End Quote ---
So that’s 10 years so a club has debuted in the top league (ring
fencing?)
Although even that list omits the likes of West Hartlepool and
Orrell who were in the old Courage league and/or the Prem. They
were in the right place at the right time but (if I remember
correctly) had the same issue as many of those who’ve cracker
the Prem but not hung around - they lacked the sugar daddies
required to survive (the second factor).
Likewise, clubs such as Preston Grasshoppers and Broughton Park
who supplied internationals in the 70s and 80s have dropped down
to the Northern leagues.
#Post#: 84329--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - English Championship
DIR By: raedarius
Date: February 10, 2022, 5:58 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Mayor West link ---
>
> When you say Yorkshire I assume you mean all of them together
which has a population greater than Scotland an economy bigger
than Wales and by far the largest land mass of any other county.
It’s population is way over 5 million so they have plenty to
choose from. It’s strange that they produce so many Union
players but their Union team hasn’t managed to rise to the
heights of other areas. I think there are still far more League
teams in Yorkshire though.
>
--- End Quote ---
South Yorkshire is the union area, and there are two union teams
which have had success over time, but the challenge there is to
get the population of Sheffield (or Barnsley I suppose) to
support Rotherham or Doncaster. Local city identity is very big
in the north.
(I'm from Sheffield by the way...)
#Post#: 84332--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - English Championship
DIR By: HamptonCourtJester
Date: February 11, 2022, 3:19 am
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Brilliant thread :)
#Post#: 84334--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - English Championship
DIR By: Mayor West
Date: February 11, 2022, 3:47 am
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The question is, is success measured in numbers playing each
code or the level that the most teams reach. I believe they have
a similar League Union area divide in Australia according to an
Aussie I know. Is France and New Zealand the same?
I wonder if these divisions are historically based on some
sort of outdated class system. There’s a bit of that going on to
this day even. There’s still the thought that Union is for posh
boys and….. is League played in many schools? It’s a perception
that is slowly changing if you look at the makeup of the top
teams.
Anyway after opening that can of worms it’s good to see
more of both on free to air TV which is probably the best way to
grow both codes. I might even watch some League myself if
there’s nothing else on.
#Post#: 84337--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - English Championship
DIR By: Monte
Date: February 11, 2022, 4:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: raedarius link ---
>
> South Yorkshire is the union area, and there are two union
teams which have had success over time, but the challenge there
is to get the population of Sheffield (or Barnsley I suppose) to
support Rotherham or Doncaster. Local city identity is very big
in the north.
>
> (I'm from Sheffield by the way...)
>
>
> No one’s perfect so don’t worry😃
>
> Can’t they call it Yorkshire or Barnsfield or Sheffsley?
>
--- End Quote ---
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