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#Post#: 84098--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - English Championship
DIR By: Yareet
Date: February 7, 2022, 12:20 pm
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--- Quote from: Mayor West link ---
>
> League up north and Union down south is the way of the world.
Neither has had big success the other way round.
>
--- End Quote ---
Ridiculous statement. Backed up with an even more ridiculous
statement.
#Post#: 84100--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - English Championship
DIR By: Mayor West
Date: February 7, 2022, 12:37 pm
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Would you care to say which League side has been such a huge
success down south.
#Post#: 84101--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - English Championship
DIR By: Yareet
Date: February 7, 2022, 12:48 pm
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--- Quote from: Mayor West link ---
>
> Would you care to say which League side has been such a huge
success down south.
>
--- End Quote ---
OK I’ll bite.
Broncos. But that depends how one defines success.
How exactly does one grow a sport if the starting premise is to
exclude a huge audience?
#Post#: 84102--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - English Championship
DIR By: Stoopendous
Date: February 7, 2022, 12:51 pm
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--- Quote from: Mayor West link ---
>
> Would you care to say which League side has been such a huge
success down south.
>
--- End Quote ---
Catalan Dragons? I'll get my coat...
#Post#: 84103--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - English Championship
DIR By: Mayor West
Date: February 7, 2022, 1:53 pm
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I was interested to know why you said that they were ridiculous
statements without backing up your argument. As I said
originally, it makes no sense. Why is there a north south divide
because there obviously is. I’m not sure the Broncos or
whichever name they are using at the moment count.
#Post#: 84108--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - English Championship
DIR By: Bolly-Quin
Date: February 7, 2022, 3:59 pm
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--- Quote from: Mayor West link ---
>
> I was interested to know why you said that they were
ridiculous statements without backing up your argument. As I
said originally, it makes no sense. Why is there a north south
divide because there obviously is. I’m not sure the Broncos or
whichever name they are using at the moment count.
>
--- End Quote ---
Sale and Newcastle have both won the Rugby Union league before;
I don't know if you count Leicester as "up north", but they have
won it lots of times; Sale were neck and neck with us last year
and just gave us a resounding thumping...
#Post#: 84113--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - English Championship
DIR By: Lawyerquin
Date: February 8, 2022, 12:57 am
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It is a curious issue about why Rugby League hasn't cracked the
South. I am a Londoner and Union has always been my first choice
but I enjoy League and went to Fulham when they started in 1979
and then on and off to watch the London team (whatever it was
called) over the years and I went at the weekend before last to
watch the Broncos as they are now playing local to me at the AFC
Wimbledon stadium in SW19. The game actually wan't great at all
but what was clear was the lack of a crowd. 2,100 hardy souls
were there and it was the best crowd apparently for 8 years. Now
I appreciate Broncos are not in the top division but there are
some heavyweight clubs in their division and the match I saw was
against Widnes. I had always assumed League could make a go of
it in London as there must be large numbers of ex-pat
Northerners living and working down here who were brought up on
League and who would welcome a Southern based side-but it never
happened. Fulham started all those years ago in a blaze of
publicity (and a good team) but in the end they couldn't make it
work and crowds were never huge (they averaged about 6,000 in
their first season but the numbers dropped off after that). As
far as Union up North it is true that in the professional era it
has limited success with both the number of clubs and crowds
(Sale and Newcastle seem to average half our crowds) but in the
amateur times there were some great Northern clubs-Gosforth,
Broughton Park, Fylde (all producing International players)
amongst them.
#Post#: 84114--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - English Championship
DIR By: raedarius
Date: February 8, 2022, 1:57 am
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League is really popular in a narrowish band across the north
from St Helens to Hull. It isn't so much an 'all of the north'
thing as is sometimes assumed.
#Post#: 84116--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - English Championship
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: February 8, 2022, 3:12 am
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--- Quote from: raedarius link ---
>
> League is really popular in a narrowish band across the north
from St Helens to Hull. It isn't so much an 'all of the north'
thing as is sometimes assumed.
>
--- End Quote ---
Maybe geographically but that's where most of the population
lives, along the M62 corridor.
#Post#: 84119--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - English Championship
DIR By: Yareet
Date: February 8, 2022, 3:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Mayor West link ---
>
> I was interested to know why you said that they were
ridiculous statements without backing up your argument. As I
said originally, it makes no sense. Why is there a north south
divide because there obviously is. I’m not sure the Broncos or
whichever name they are using at the moment count.
>
--- End Quote ---
Having checked a few details, here we go:
Of the current England Men's squad (as listed on the RFU site),
6/36 are either from the North or grew up there (Curry). I've
ignored Farrell (not in the squad), Chessum and Hill (in case we
consider Lincolnshire and Shropshire as not in the North).
Arguably, England men's greatest rugby union achievement was the
'03 win. Of the starting XV, 4 are from the North (Kay,
Greenwood, Tindall, Robinson). Again I'm ignoring those who have
strong links (Wilkinson playing at Newcastle, Dallaglio at
school in Yorkshire) and the wider squad (Balshaw, Grayson).
Aside from Greenwood, Quins have celebrated the likes of Moore
and Care. Both from Yorkshire.
As others have mentioned, Northern clubs have twice won the
Prem. It's not often but it is the equal of all the SW clubs.
And more Northern clubs have managed it. So shall we cancel
rugby in the West Country as well?*
At the next level down from Prem rugby, Lancashire are the most
successful team in the county championship. In fact, of the 119
county competitions that have been held, 55 have been won by
Northern counties. The last time it was held (2019), Cheshire
were the runners up.
At an amateur level, there are 16 RFU leagues in the Northern
division. However, Lancashire withdrew from the RFU league so
have their own 1st XV championship of 3 leagues. Cancelling
rugby union in the north is therefore closing these c.200 clubs.
Plus all the teams who play Merit League rugby.
As regards attendances, before I moved to Twickenham, I was a
season ticket holder at Sale. Edgeley Park was packed most games
- unsurprising when we had the likes of Chabal, White,
McAllister, Robinson, etc. The move to the AJ Bell was perhaps
handled badly and that hit attendances. We are only now
recovering form that and attendances are rising. Is that any
different to Irish moving to Reading or Wasps moving to
Coventry?
You still haven't given me an indicator of what you consider to
be success so let me offer this.
For perhaps the best part of a decade ('08-'16) I believe Sale
operated well beneath the salary cap. We should therefore have
been slugging it out with Worcester, Irish, etc. Instead we were
never relegated and instead achieved Champions Cup rugby 3/8
times. I'd call that a (partial) success.
Since we've had the new owners (2016), Sale have had 5 men's
players who have won their first England caps. For comparison, I
think Quins have produced the same number of debutants in that
time (Brown, Collier, Dombrandt, Marchant and Smith). So does
that count as a successful club?
None of which answers the question as to how the game is grown
if we alienate a huge slice of the country.
*I thought Bath won Div 1 and not the Prem. I may be wrong on
that front.
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