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       #Post#: 82508--------------------------------------------------
       Re: DC renewal?
   DIR By: Rocker
       Date: January 18, 2022, 6:37 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       As I understand it no other team could have Marcus as a marquee
       player until he's been with them for a number of years (3 I
       think) therefore the risk of losing a Marcus (or anyone from our
       current squad) to another Prem club isn't (probably) going to be
       about money unless it's a position we're stacked in and they're
       not. Marquee player has to be from outside the Prem or been with
       you for (I think) 3 years so no one is poaching another Prem
       star unless they're desperate. It's too much of the cap gone on
       I've player.
       The rings are getting tougher all over the world with respect to
       "national qualified"players the top 14 will have a high% that
       have to French qualified from next year. The days of lots of
       expensive foreigners in the top 14 is probably over. There will
       be a general drop in wages. That's the only way it goes.
       I was interested to listen to one of the podcasts the other
       week. They had Genge on who just didn't get that the Prem
       doesn't make enough to pay him and all the other "stars" what
       they have been earning and what he seems to think they should
       earn. I guess he's never studied economics....
       #Post#: 82511--------------------------------------------------
       Re: DC renewal?
   DIR By: TomBuckQuin
       Date: January 19, 2022, 3:02 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       How long have people been saying "wages will have to drop"
       though? Pro rugby players are more unionised than ever now - I
       just can't see it happening. Those perception politics that
       Genge was talking about will always fall in favour of the
       players. And ultimately, they have the choice to go and play in
       Japan/the US, meaning Prem clubs have to remain competitive to
       keep their best players. We're already seeing the shift towards
       bulking out squads with academy players - the clubs will do that
       and sacrifice squad players rather than telling a Marcus Smith
       or an Ellis Genge that they can't have a bump in salary at the
       next contract negotiation. And so the vicious cycle continues...
       Fwiw, I agree with Rocker's implicit assertion that this is
       unsustainable, but if a team wants to be competitive in the
       Prem, they just have to spend up to the cap and they just have
       to pay their best players what they want. And so professional
       rugby's unsustainable financial model continues...
       #Post#: 82513--------------------------------------------------
       Re: DC renewal?
   DIR By: Rocker
       Date: January 19, 2022, 3:11 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       But the MRL has a cap and it's far lower than the Prem (350k
       US), so does Japan and it's also lower. There isn't the money in
       the global game for them all to be getting paid as much as some
       players think they're worth. They can't expect the owners to
       keep shoveling money in, or perhaps they do? In which case they
       are in for a reality check.
       PS: I think what the punishment of the cheats from the owners
       POV was all about was inflating wages and making them all liable
       for too much extra salary for players.
       #Post#: 82516--------------------------------------------------
       Re: DC renewal?
   DIR By: TomBuckQuin
       Date: January 19, 2022, 3:34 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I think the players do expect that - the precedent has been set.
       "It's happened up to now, why should I expect any less than a X%
       rise?"
       And maybe the MRL and Japan's Top League have had lower caps up
       to now (and will do for some years to come) but we all know the
       consequences of the potential investment that's going to get
       pumped into those leagues - if they're successful, there's
       another market force pulling against any kind of "reality check"
       emerging in the Prem.
       I fully admit I'm no expert and definitely not an economist. I
       just have a sense that CEOs and Head Coaches saying "we have to
       tighten our belts, don't expect the same offers on the table" is
       a thinly veiled "please go easy on us at contract negotiation
       time, but we'll roll over if necessary". And in a few years'
       time, the clubs will turn to PRL and the RFU for another
       bailout...
       #Post#: 82522--------------------------------------------------
       Re: DC renewal?
   DIR By: poorfour
       Date: January 19, 2022, 4:02 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       One thing I've noticed is that Quins are now talking in terms of
       long term contracts but not specifying the duration. We were one
       of the first clubs to start using 3 year contracts, so I suspect
       that some of the ones we're now signing could be 4+ years or
       even open-ended.
       My guess is that some of the deals we are negotiating are "we'll
       have to pay you less while the cap is lower, but here's how your
       earnings will escalate once it returns, as long as you are still
       fit and meeting your training commitments" - i.e. trading off
       the short term cut against long term certainty. We won't know
       for a while, but if I were in their shoes that's what I'd do.
       I also suspect that like many clubs a few squad players might be
       encouraged to retire a little early (possibly with the incentive
       of coaching or community roles to help them transition to
       retirement) and we'll promote more from the (fortunately very
       strong) academy pipeline - it's noticeable that a lot of the
       contract announcements have been Academy or recent Academy
       signings.
       What I think we need to avoid is to lose any of the really key
       players to other clubs in the NH. Wilco is perhaps less critical
       given Collier's return to form but I would hate to have to play
       against him.
       I wouldn't begrudge Danny leaving for a payday elsewhere, but he
       seems to want to stay and I suspect his post-playing future lies
       in broadcasting. I could see us losing a couple of the backup
       backs, but the regular matchday XXIII contenders are such a
       well-matched unit that I hope it would take a lot to break them
       up.
       I don't think it's hyperbole to say that the club would lose
       part of its soul if Marler were to go to another club.
       #Post#: 82525--------------------------------------------------
       Re: DC renewal?
   DIR By: Monte
       Date: January 19, 2022, 4:10 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Nico Wilson link ---
       >
       > My money is on Esterhuizen
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Yes but think back to when Sinks went the panic was on for a TH
       prop of quality as the cupboard was bare so was Wilcow a
       marquee? On the other hand Rand to GBP could mean none of the
       Saffers! Interesting times and I doubt we will know the answer!
       #Post#: 82526--------------------------------------------------
       Re: DC renewal?
   DIR By: Twickersman
       Date: January 19, 2022, 4:14 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Monte link ---
       >
       > Yes but think back to when Sinks went the panic was on for a
       TH prop of quality as the cupboard was bare so was Wilcow a
       marquee? On the other hand Rand to GBP could mean none of the
       Saffers! Interesting times and I doubt we will know the answer!
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       My Money is on Smith. We need to keep him at all costs.
       The Saffers will be on good money, but with the rand so low, I
       agree it will not be one of them.
       [attachment deleted by admin]
       #Post#: 82527--------------------------------------------------
       Re: DC renewal?
   DIR By: Rocker
       Date: January 19, 2022, 4:24 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Thing with Smith is we get academy credits and England credits
       to off set his salary. Also no other prem club can sign him as a
       marquee player....
       #Post#: 82570--------------------------------------------------
       Re: DC renewal?
   DIR By: Nico Wilson
       Date: January 19, 2022, 2:57 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Here's my thinking (i.e. stab in the dark guesswork!) on
       renewal/extension wording:
       Extension = 1 year
       Renewal = 2 years
       Long term = 3 years
       #Post#: 82572--------------------------------------------------
       Re: DC renewal?
   DIR By: poorfour
       Date: January 19, 2022, 3:26 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Nico Wilson link ---
       >
       > Here's my thinking (i.e. stab in the dark guesswork!) on
       renewal/extension wording:
       >
       > Extension = 1 year
       > Renewal = 2 years
       > Long term = 3 years
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Except they've historically been very open about the length of
       contracts. What's changed?
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