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#Post#: 82457--------------------------------------------------
Re: 6 Nations Squad speculation
DIR By: Fearless Fred
Date: January 18, 2022, 5:16 am
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--- Quote from: Nico Wilson link ---
>
> I vaguely remember Adam Jones swapping from tight head to
loose head, and (I think) Conor complementing him when we won.
>
--- End Quote ---
Here's the report
HTML https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/oct/08/harlequins-northampton-premiership-match-report-adam-jones<br
/>in the Gruaniad for that game. Not only did he swap sides, he
played 73 mins there & hadn't played for 5 months before that
game!
#Post#: 82461--------------------------------------------------
Re: 6 Nations Squad speculation
DIR By: Yareet
Date: January 18, 2022, 5:34 am
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--- Quote from: Mayor West link ---
>
> Didn’t a prop say that swapping sides was like trying to write
with your wrong hand. Sounds like a good analogy from what I’ve
been told.
>
--- End Quote ---
It’s possible and there are still a few around who can play both
sides at test level. Andrew Porter springs to mind.
However, there are several others who’ve tried and been … less
successful. IMO Joe (for all his greatness as a 1) fell into
this camp.
Having said that, I’m pretty sure that if Eddie asked (for
example) Will Collier to start training as an emergency 1 with a
view to going to the World Cup, Collier would oblige.
Nobody is overly surprised when wingers are asked to play in the
centres or 4s play 6 so I don’t know why props don’t learn to
switch sides for emergency situations.
Every team used to have somebody who could.
#Post#: 82462--------------------------------------------------
Re: 6 Nations Squad speculation
DIR By: Nico Wilson
Date: January 18, 2022, 5:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Fearless Fred link ---
>
> Here's the report
HTML https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/oct/08/harlequins-northampton-premiership-match-report-adam-jones<br
/>in the Gruaniad for that game. Not only did he swap sides, he
played 73 mins there & hadn't played for 5 months before that
game!
>
--- End Quote ---
Great, thanks FF
#Post#: 82464--------------------------------------------------
Re: 6 Nations Squad speculation
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: January 18, 2022, 5:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> It’s possible and there are still a few around who can play
both sides at test level. Andrew Porter springs to mind.
>
> However, there are several others who’ve tried and been … less
successful. IMO Joe (for all his greatness as a 1) fell into
this camp.
>
> Having said that, I’m pretty sure that if Eddie asked (for
example) Will Collier to start training as an emergency 1 with a
view to going to the World Cup, Collier would oblige.
>
> Nobody is overly surprised when wingers are asked to play in
the centres or 4s play 6 so I don’t know why props don’t learn
to switch sides for emergency situations.
>
> Every team used to have somebody who could.
>
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Wingers don't risk injury by swapping positions and usually
don't give away penalties for it either... Wingers also might
naturally find themselves in the centres during matches anyway,
but props don't end up on the wrong side by mistake or because
that's how play went. They are specialist positions that require
a huge amount of technical and physical development.
#Post#: 82470--------------------------------------------------
Re: 6 Nations Squad speculation
DIR By: Yareet
Date: January 18, 2022, 6:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> They are specialist positions that require a huge amount of
technical and physical development.
>
--- End Quote ---
Fully agree that the two positions are specialist but my point
is that players used to be able to play both and with training
they still can. For whatever reason, modern props rarely choose
to do that training.
Given the restricted numbers, the RWC squad in 2019 lacked a
third 3 - hence Marler saying he'd play there. Why not learn
from this and ask a young prop to practice on both sides? Even
since the game went pro, Leonard did it, Stevens did it,
Porter's still doing it so it can be done.
#Post#: 82473--------------------------------------------------
Re: 6 Nations Squad speculation
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: January 18, 2022, 8:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> Fully agree that the two positions are specialist but my point
is that players used to be able to play both and with training
they still can. For whatever reason, modern props rarely choose
to do that training.
>
> Given the restricted numbers, the RWC squad in 2019 lacked a
third 3 - hence Marler saying he'd play there. Why not learn
from this and ask a young prop to practice on both sides? Even
since the game went pro, Leonard did it, Stevens did it,
Porter's still doing it so it can be done.
>
--- End Quote ---
There are hundreds of professional props and a mere handful have
been able to do it. Marler played a fair bit of tighthead as a
youngster. It's not just a question of bothering to learn - it's
not just about learning full stop. It's quite different in terms
of technical demands, the pressures on your body can be very
different, and time spent learning to be a (probably quite bad)
tighthead might well be better spent in getting better at your
primary role.
It's kinda like asking why more 10s don't retrain as 9s or vice
versa, except with the risk of a serious injury or a penalty
circus every time you get to play your new role.
Completely agree that the flexiblity would be brilliant and yes,
if a player can do it, that's fantastic. But the vast majority
of players can't do it and they do risk injury by even trying.
There's a reason why what seems like an obvious thing to do
isn't being done. The laws require props to be technically adept
in the role they're playing, because of the danger level to
everyone if there's an incompetent prop. It's one of the reasons
why we're allowed a full replacement front row. Certainly if a
young prop shows the ability to play both sides without it
hurting his development then I'm all for it, but it's a real
risk.
Anecdotally, I hated playing tighthead but thoroughly enjoyed
playing as a loosehead. Not that I was any good! The season I
spent playing hooker was very strange and I ended up with a back
injury that put paid to any interest I had in switching
permanently, despite enjoying the lineout work.
#Post#: 82475--------------------------------------------------
Re: 6 Nations Squad speculation
DIR By: noah_jo
Date: January 18, 2022, 8:19 am
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The RWC rules now accomadate for the lack of versatility and you
will be allowed a larger squad moving forward so it's a moot
point really. Just specialise and be the best you can be
#Post#: 82476--------------------------------------------------
Re: 6 Nations Squad speculation
DIR By: fatgat
Date: January 18, 2022, 8:26 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Mayor West link ---
>
> Didn’t a prop say that swapping sides was like trying to write
with your wrong hand. Sounds like a good analogy from what I’ve
been told.
>
--- End Quote ---
Props can write?
#Post#: 82482--------------------------------------------------
Re: 6 Nations Squad speculation
DIR By: Yareet
Date: January 18, 2022, 9:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
>
> Anecdotally, I hated playing tighthead but thoroughly enjoyed
playing as a loosehead.
>
--- End Quote ---
For clarity, I'm also a loosehead so I get the different physics
involved. As you allude to, at amateur level many of us have to
be ready to cover both sides (as well as second row, back row
and centre now and then!).
I'd also fully agree that it's nowhere near the same as
switching between 6 and 7 or 12 and 13. However, if I were 25
years younger and starting out as a pro prop, I'd be working on
being able to hold my own on the other side. Likewise, if I was
starting out as a pro 9, I'd learn to kick goals to a 75%+
standard. Surely that maximises your worth to a team.
#Post#: 82486--------------------------------------------------
Re: 6 Nations Squad speculation
DIR By: Carbonm
Date: January 18, 2022, 9:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> Likewise, if I was starting out as a pro 9, I'd learn to kick
goals to a 75%+ standard. Surely that maximises your worth to a
team.
>
--- End Quote ---
Exactly, and why is it only hookers throw in to the lineout?
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