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#Post#: 81228--------------------------------------------------
Re: TRP this week
DIR By: T-Bone
Date: January 4, 2022, 5:37 am
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I know it's silly and, if he leaves it doesn't really matter
where he goes, but losing him to Sarries would seem an
additional blow to just losing him.
If Sarries are prepared to offer him a big chunk more than we
can, then can't blame a young player in a very attritional
position from taking the money. Let's face it, however well
we're playing at the moment, if he moves to Sarries then he'll
be with a team who will be regularly competing for the
premiership and in Europe, so not like he'd just be prioritising
money over honours / success
#Post#: 81236--------------------------------------------------
Re: TRP this week
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: January 4, 2022, 6:28 am
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He'd also be fighting for selection with Itoje, Kpoku, Isiekwe,
and Hunter-Hill (assuming Swinson retires again). Not guaranteed
he'd be starting.
#Post#: 81238--------------------------------------------------
Re: TRP this week
DIR By: poorfour
Date: January 4, 2022, 6:33 am
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--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> He'd also be fighting for selection with Itoje, Kpoku,
Isiekwe, and Hunter-Hill (assuming Swinson retires again). Not
guaranteed he'd be starting.
>
--- End Quote ---
The thing is, though, his playing style is very reminiscent of
Kruis, whereas Kpoku and Isiekwe are more like Itoje (not seen
much of Hunter-Hill). You could see him bringing balance to a
Saracens lineout that they wouldn't otherwise have.
#Post#: 81245--------------------------------------------------
Re: TRP this week
DIR By: Quinston Churchill
Date: January 4, 2022, 7:13 am
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Yep. Also worth bearing in mind that Isiekwe plays at least as
many games at 6 as he does in the row. Kpoku left for France a
few weeks back (Lyon I think?).
#Post#: 81262--------------------------------------------------
Re: TRP this week
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: January 4, 2022, 11:03 am
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--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> The thing is, though, his playing style is very reminiscent of
Kruis, whereas Kpoku and Isiekwe are more like Itoje (not seen
much of Hunter-Hill). You could see him bringing balance to a
Saracens lineout that they wouldn't otherwise have.
>
--- End Quote ---
Kpoku might bear some physical resemblence to Itoje but he plays
a tighter game - a moot point as I didn't know he's gone to
Lyon, though. Bad news for us as it makes the move far more
likely.
I know you're wedded to the idea that a 4 and a 5 are
essentially totally different positions but they'll pick their
best locks regardless like they always do.
#Post#: 81268--------------------------------------------------
Re: TRP this week
DIR By: poorfour
Date: January 4, 2022, 11:56 am
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--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> Kpoku might bear some physical resemblence to Itoje but he
plays a tighter game - a moot point as I didn't know he's gone
to Lyon, though. Bad news for us as it makes the move far more
likely.
>
> I know you're wedded to the idea that a 4 and a 5 are
essentially totally different positions but they'll pick their
best locks regardless like they always do.
>
--- End Quote ---
And hominem much?
They're not totally different positions, but there are key
differences. Less different than loosehead and tighthead,
certainly, but at least as different as inside centre and
outside centre.
If you look at the great lock pairings, they almost all have two
players with distinct skill sets - Johnson and Kay, Itoje and
Kruis, Matfield and Botha, Retallick and Whitelock. Kohn and
Robson, even.
That said, statistically lock is one of the positions with the
highest injury rate, so quite often teams do just have to play
their best available locks. But they generally go better when
they have a setpiece specialist and an enforcer style lock
working together rather than two similar players.
#Post#: 81270--------------------------------------------------
Re: TRP this week
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: January 4, 2022, 12:03 pm
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Where on earth is the ad hominem???
I'd add that in almost all of those cases (I don't agree that
Itoje/Kruis is one of the "great" combos) those were the best
two locks full stop. SA just won a world cup with De Jager and
Etzebeth, two massive blokes who could play 4 or 5 as they felt
like it. No-one in NZ came close to either Whitelock or
Retallick; when one was injured, they picked the next best
player regardless. Johnson and Kay was very much as you say, but
that is going back a long time now and has its roots in the
amateur era and the early days of professionalism when that sort
of pairing was more common.
Even with England, it's almost always Itoje +1, and the +1 is
largely "whoever is fit and in form". Launchbury or Lawes or
Hill or Kruis (when he was available) or even Ewels - very
different players playing the same role.
(We tried Itoje at 6 for a bit of course)
#Post#: 81273--------------------------------------------------
Re: TRP this week
DIR By: Quinster
Date: January 4, 2022, 1:38 pm
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Excuse my lack of knowledge of the pack (played as a back)
what’s the main difference between 4 & 5? 4 the enforcer & big
lump, 5 more dynamic lineout option?
#Post#: 81274--------------------------------------------------
Re: TRP this week
DIR By: poorfour
Date: January 4, 2022, 3:01 pm
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--- Quote from: Quinster link ---
>
> Excuse my lack of knowledge of the pack (played as a back)
what’s the main difference between 4 & 5? 4 the enforcer & big
lump, 5 more dynamic lineout option?
>
--- End Quote ---
That's broadly it. Clearly JG and I disagree about how much
teams try to have a balance of the two, but my view is that
unless they have locks of the calibre of De Jager and Etzebeth,
their first choice pairing will typically have one of each.
(Though I agree that the backups will generally be more of a
hybrid - makes sense if you only have room for one on the bench,
just as how we used to have props who could play both sides)
#Post#: 81275--------------------------------------------------
Re: TRP this week
DIR By: Quinston Churchill
Date: January 4, 2022, 3:29 pm
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Not to open up more of a debate, but would it not usually be the
opposite of that? I.e. the 5 as the tighthead lock and
‘enforcer’ type and 4 as the more athletic of the two?
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