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#Post#: 77050--------------------------------------------------
Losing international players
DIR By: RingwoodQuin
Date: October 30, 2021, 2:26 pm
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Ok, I am getting really frustrated with the effect
internationals are having on the Premiership.
This weekend we have lost 4 players key to the way we play.
Sarries have lost even more. Hopefully ,it will be a great
game, but so much more meaning if we both had full sides out. At
the end, whoever loses, both sides will be saying “what if…”
You could argue that losing your 10 has more influence than a 3
or a 5.
I used to have a season ticket but had to give it up when I
moved away. But even before that I did feel that at £600+ for
11 first team games (+ a few Europe), of which at least 5 or 6
would be below strength because of international callups, was
taking the piss. (Although I was too much of a fan to give up).
Most importantly, if we are to “grow” the game of rugby, we have
to attract “ordinary people” to the club game, not the
international game. I understand the latter provides RFU with
revenue but internationals are now games for corporates, a few
lucky club players and the rich. To attract more of the general
public we have to give Premiership club supporters a better
deal. Time to insist on separating the Premiership from the
international seasons (as they do in football). Fill those dates
with cup games of some sort.
#Post#: 77071--------------------------------------------------
Re: Losing international players
DIR By: Jayzero
Date: October 31, 2021, 7:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Did you enjoy Quins last few games of last season? I know I did.
That run leading up to our premiership final triumph will live
long in our memories.However, if the season is structured as you
suggest we would not have those memories to treasure.Without the
loss of international players during parts of the season there
would be no need for the playoff system and final. Many fans
hate the system as it stands - as with Bristol last season, who
finished 16 pts ahead the chasing pack - the team who finishes
top of the league can end up with nothing to show for their
labours.With this in mind, the best Quins could have hoped for
is 4th place, with no guarentee of that without a playoff place
to chase for.Your proposed system would have deprived us all of
the best finish to a season there has ever been, denied us the
fairytale story of Quins season and the rugby going and watching
public of the spectacle of both the semi-finals and final!
As an aside, you don't need to spend £600 on a season ticket
if you don't feel you are getting value for money. There are
cheaper options!
#Post#: 77080--------------------------------------------------
Re: Losing international players
DIR By: Yareet
Date: October 31, 2021, 10:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RingwoodQuin link ---
>
> Ok, I am getting really frustrated with the effect
internationals are having on the Premiership.
>
> This weekend we have lost 4 players key to the way we play.
Sarries have lost even more. Hopefully ,it will be a great
game, but so much more meaning if we both had full sides out. At
the end, whoever loses, both sides will be saying “what if…”
You could argue that losing your 10 has more influence than a 3
or a 5.
>
> I used to have a season ticket but had to give it up when I
moved away. But even before that I did feel that at £600+ for
11 first team games (+ a few Europe), of which at least 5 or 6
would be below strength because of international callups, was
taking the ****. (Although I was too much of a fan to give up).
>
> Most importantly, if we are to “grow” the game of rugby, we
have to attract “ordinary people” to the club game, not the
international game. I understand the latter provides RFU with
revenue but internationals are now games for corporates, a few
lucky club players and the rich. To attract more of the general
public we have to give Premiership club supporters a better
deal. Time to insist on separating the Premiership from the
international seasons (as they do in football). Fill those dates
with cup games of some sort.
>
--- End Quote ---
The only way to separate the club and Test games is to have
fewer games for one of them. There aren’t enough weekends to
have 26 (or even 24) rounds of the Prem, 11 Test weekends and 9
Euro weekends.
If your aim is to attract more people to club rugby (personally
I’m not sure that’s the best route), having fewer Prem games
would seem counter-productive. Even if the Prem clubs would
agree to it.
So it’s fewer Tests. And therefore less cash for the RFU. Which
directly impacts the grassroots game. So your local club will
need a new cash injection.
Fortunately, it’s not a few lucky club players who get tickets.
It’s a few lucky club members. Nothing to stop anyone becoming a
social member of their local club.
Or you could tonten whole hog and become a sponsor of your local
club.
Either route is of course open to you now. And gives you access
to tickets.
#Post#: 77081--------------------------------------------------
Re: Losing international players
DIR By: tigerburnie
Date: October 31, 2021, 10:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> The only way to separate the club and Test games is to have
fewer games for one of them. There aren’t enough weekends to
have 26 (or even 24) rounds of the Prem, 11 Test weekends and 9
Euro weekends.
>
> If your aim is to attract more people to club rugby
(personally I’m not sure that’s the best route), having fewer
Prem games would seem counter-productive. Even if the Prem clubs
would agree to it.
>
> So it’s fewer Tests. And therefore less cash for the RFU.
Which directly impacts the grassroots game. So your local club
will need a new cash injection.
>
> Fortunately, it’s not a few lucky club players who get
tickets. It’s a few lucky club members. Nothing to stop anyone
becoming a social member of their local club.
>
> Or you could tonten whole hog and become a sponsor of your
local club.
>
> Either route is of course open to you now. And gives you
access to tickets.
>
--- End Quote ---
The RFU are not supporting grass roots rugby going forward, the
National leagues are being re-vamped to cut down on travel and
overnight stays, up till this year the RFU contributed, this
year the clubs are getting nothing. My old club travels from
Leicester to Guernsey and Cornwall and obviously they do the
return trips, no financial help from the RFU, they just fill the
coffers for themselves.
#Post#: 77120--------------------------------------------------
Re: Losing international players
DIR By: RingwoodQuin
Date: October 31, 2021, 12:29 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Jayzero link ---
>
> Did you enjoy Quins last few games of last season? I know I
did. That run leading up to our premiership final triumph will
live long in our memories.However, if the season is structured
as you suggest we would not have those memories to
treasure.Without the loss of international players during parts
of the season there would be no need for the playoff system and
final. Many fans hate the system as it stands - as with Bristol
last season, who finished 16 pts ahead the chasing pack - the
team who finishes top of the league can end up with nothing to
show for their labours.With this in mind, the best Quins could
have hoped for is 4th place, with no guarentee of that without a
playoff place to chase for.Your proposed system would have
deprived us all of the best finish to a season there has ever
been, denied us the fairytale story of Quins season and the
rugby going and watching public of the spectacle of both the
semi-finals and final!
> As an aside, you don't need to spend £600 on a season ticket
if you don't feel you are getting value for money. There are
cheaper options!
>
--- End Quote ---
I wasn’t suggesting we stop the playoff system - that is a
different argument. So I am not sure I understand your point.
I would just like to see every team picking from all of its
squad, allowing for injuries and rests, every game, and not have
that limited by losing internationals. In the end the best 4
really would reach the playoffs.
Whether we pay £600 or £300 is irrelevant, but we do pay to
watch our full team, and not half of the squad. The RFU appears
able to ignore this in the search for more cash, which as
pointed out in another post does not necessarily reach grass
roots.
I realise this would involve a major overhaul of the season, and
there are many implications, but just make the point that club
supporters should not be taken for granted, as I feel we often
are.
Imagine Quins v sarries with all internationals available, but
that probably won’t happen in either game this season.
#Post#: 77121--------------------------------------------------
Re: Losing international players
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: October 31, 2021, 12:32 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The RFU blew millions and it wasn't on grassroots rugby! They
are badly mismanaged.
Our current setup is a lousy compromise and it doesn't even do
what it's supposed to: the RFU still mess up, clubs still lose
money, it still hurts the premiership, and it still hurts player
welfare.
#Post#: 77124--------------------------------------------------
Re: Losing international players
DIR By: RingwoodQuin
Date: October 31, 2021, 12:33 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> Fortunately, it’s not a few lucky club players who get
tickets. It’s a few lucky club members. Nothing to stop anyone
becoming a social member of their local club.
>
--- End Quote ---
My mistype - I meant members. Thanks
#Post#: 77177--------------------------------------------------
Re: Losing international players
DIR By: A222Quin
Date: October 31, 2021, 2:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Sport in general is horribly mismanaged. It’s just clearer now
than it was in the past. The ECB are useless, RFU are useless,
the FA are useless. The Welsh bang on about the WRU and it’s
impact on anything but the national team.
#Post#: 77223--------------------------------------------------
Re: Losing international players
DIR By: Banstead Quin
Date: November 1, 2021, 5:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
As Yareet pointed out above, that's 45 weeks to fulfill fixtures
out of 52. Allowing for a break and pre-season there is no more
room.
I think that the WRU were trying to look at this as part of the
global calendar and have Prem between September end of January,
along with a couple of midweek fixtures and then an
international window of 5 weeks (6 Nations, Rugby Championship
etc) and then European/Super Rugby (probably franchised) early
March till May then another international window (Lions and SH
tours) till end of June.
I may have mis-rembered the key dates buy it was broadly
something like that. It means we keep our players for the Prem
but throws our normal routine out. We would still get big game
though!!!
#Post#: 77230--------------------------------------------------
Re: Losing international players
DIR By: Fearless Fred
Date: November 1, 2021, 6:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The only way we can fit all the games in without overlap &
keeping internationals with their clubs is to reduce the number
of games overall, meaning fewer club games. I can only see that
happening in the NH if the structure of domestic competitions is
fundamentally changed.
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