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#Post#: 76246--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wasps ask Premiership to consider ban on Exeter Chiefs’
headdresses
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: October 16, 2021, 5:41 pm
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I mean, Jesus, even Wikipedia has some basics on this
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Americans_in_film
--- Quote ---
> The portrayal of Native Americans in film has been criticized
for perceived systemic problem since the inception of the
industry for its use of stereotypes that range from violent
barbarians to noble and peaceful savages.[1] A variety of images
appeared from the early to mid 1930s, and by the late 1930s
negative images briefly dominated Westerns. In 1950, the
watershed film Broken Arrow appeared that many credit as the
first postwar Western to depict Native Americans
sympathetically. Starting in the 1990s, Native American
filmmakers have attempted to make independent films that work to
represent the depth and complexity of indigenous peoples as
people and provide a realistic account of their culture.[1]
--- End Quote ---
It's a decent bit of work, actually, with a lot of interesting
links. Well, if you're actually interested.
#Post#: 76260--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wasps ask Premiership to consider ban on Exeter Chiefs’
headdresses
DIR By: DOK
Date: October 17, 2021, 9:10 am
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--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> With all due respect, if you're not seeing it, you're being
willfully blind.
>
> It's not even new to complain about the racist portrayal of
native Americans in Hollywood. Rather famously, Marlon Brando
made a big deal out of it back in the 70s, declined an Academy
award for the godfather, and gave his speech time over to a
native American actor to talk about the way Hollywood portrayed
native Americans.
>
> It is an absolute nonsense to say no one complains about it.
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't see anyone complaining about the showing of "cowboy and
indian" films on UK TV, which is what I was talking about. The
fact those films are shown pretty regularly on afternoon TV
surely is much worse than a few hundred rugby supporters wearing
indian war bonnets once a week for a few hours. I'm not saying
that's right, I'm saying if you're serious about cultural
appropriation then better to complain about the big items and
work your way down to the small.
I mean I just did a google for "cowboy and indian dressing up"
and this was the second hit
HTML https://www.fancydressball.co.uk/adult-costumes/cowboys-and-indian-costumes/pages/2.htm.<br
/>I guess somewhere like this is where you can buy the war
bonnet.
Which raises an interesting question, without the war bonnet, is
it still cultural appropriation? If you just wear the mocassins
and skins and things?
If I, an English white male, wear a cowboy outfit, is that not
cultural appropriation of a mid West US culture?
As it happens, I support the idea of the fans not wearing a war
bonnet. It is a cultural icon of the Native Americans, and it's
significance is nicely explained in this article which came up a
previous time we discussed this
HTML https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2014/jul/30/why-the-fashion-headdress-must-be-stopped.<br
/>All I was doing is pointing out the inconsistencies in people
getting so worked up about this issue of a few hundred Exeter
supporters when if you really care about the issue there are
much bigger fish to fry.
#Post#: 76275--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wasps ask Premiership to consider ban on Exeter Chiefs’
headdresses
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: October 17, 2021, 12:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I shouldn't have to explain the difference between showing a
film made in the 1950s, and the continued actions of a
professional rugby team in 2021.
Appalling portrayals of pretty much any non white people are de
rigeur in old cinema, and the arguments have been made time and
time again. People accept that they are awful and representative
of attitudes at the time. People love Breakfast at Tiffany's,
but if that film came out today, the incredibly racist portrayal
of a Chinese man would cause an uproar. Using it as a mascot for
a sports team would be unthinkable.
No one of criticising Chiefs for historical things that are
being reshown now. They're criticising Chiefs for being fully
aware of the facts and deciding it doesn't matter and that their
marketing and money making is more important.
Films of that era bring shown on TV now are not remotely
relevant to this argument.
#Post#: 76277--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wasps ask Premiership to consider ban on Exeter Chiefs’
headdresses
DIR By: SiB
Date: October 17, 2021, 12:40 pm
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Quick question, if the headdress is so sacred, why can you buy
one for 5o dollars in most Indian casinos?
#Post#: 76278--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wasps ask Premiership to consider ban on Exeter Chiefs’
headdresses
DIR By: Famosb
Date: October 17, 2021, 12:55 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Really good discussion on this on Rugby Tonight on BT Sport. A
good analogy was put forward that it was the equivalent of
turning up at a match wearing medals you didn’t earn.
#Post#: 76284--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wasps ask Premiership to consider ban on Exeter Chiefs’
headdresses
DIR By: MadMax
Date: October 17, 2021, 2:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Famosb link ---
>
> Really good discussion on this on Rugby Tonight on BT Sport. A
good analogy was put forward that it was the equivalent of
turning up at a match wearing medals you didn’t earn.
>
--- End Quote ---
Premiership rugby medals?
#Post#: 76288--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wasps ask Premiership to consider ban on Exeter Chiefs’
headdresses
DIR By: DOK
Date: October 17, 2021, 3:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> Films of that era bring shown on TV now are not remotely
relevant to this argument.
>
--- End Quote ---
So bring back the black and white minstrels?
#Post#: 76292--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wasps ask Premiership to consider ban on Exeter Chiefs’
headdresses
DIR By: Bolly-Quin
Date: October 17, 2021, 5:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: SiB link ---
>
> Quick question, if the headdress is so sacred, why can you buy
one for 5o dollars in most Indian casinos?
>
--- End Quote ---
You can buy anything, Si - and I guess that is part of the
problem - especially in the US...
It's a bit like Victoria, a small city in the south of Vancouver
Island, with a former and still strong leaning to the UK -
wanting to call its soccer/Canadian football/Rugby/Cricket team
the "Victorian Crosses" - not going to go down well with the
many posthumous (turning in their graves, perhaps) and surviving
medal awardees here and throughout the Commonwealth...
#Post#: 76294--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wasps ask Premiership to consider ban on Exeter Chiefs’
headdresses
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: October 17, 2021, 5:42 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Nice one DOK, excellent work ignoring 90% of the post to get in
a bad faith analogy already addressed in the bits you ignored.
#Post#: 76295--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wasps ask Premiership to consider ban on Exeter Chiefs’
headdresses
DIR By: Treecko
Date: October 17, 2021, 5:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DOK link ---
>
> So bring back the black and white minstrels?
>
--- End Quote ---
I think (though feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) the
arguments that JammyGit was making was that:
a) Just because someone is doing something bad elsewhere,
doesn't mean that we can't do something good here, and
b) That those films are part of history, and hold value as a
reflection of the views of those times, and showing them now
doesn't mean that we condone those views. However, Exeter's
branding is something that is being done now, and which doesn't
reflect the views of the majority, so naturally there's going to
be a lot more pressure on Exeter to change, rather than trying
to hide the (now unpopular) views of 70 years ago.
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