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#Post#: 74840--------------------------------------------------
Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
DIR By: poorfour
Date: September 22, 2021, 5:40 am
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--- Quote from: Dibden link ---
>
> Jones’ selection policy is in stark contrast to New Zealand
where there is planned slow but steady consistency in
development and succession
> as is best practice in any well organised professional
business.
> Such radical change 2 years out from rwc is an admission he
has made a mess of squad development since Japan.
> We will be lucky to get beyond quarter finals in France.It is
certain we will not be serious contenders.If we lose to OZ and
SA in November RFU must consider dismissal but I bet they will
duck the issue as they are in a bigger mess than worrying about
Jones.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
I disagree. You're making a big assumption based on what you can
see that Eddie hasn't been doing any systematic succession
planning. I think he has. For one thing, many of the players
who've now been called up are players he's kept tabs on for a
while. He's been watching Marcus since one of his very earliest
England training sessions, has involved him in England camps
fairly regularly (along with some of the other pretenders to the
10 shirt) and will undoubtedly have been giving him instructions
on what he has to work on. The same with Dombrandt and others.
Eddie has pretty consistently throughout his international
coaching career had a high turnover of coaching staff and mid
RWC-cycle slumps in performance after which he has a clearout of
the squad. He even predicted the 2018 one in 2016.
It happens so regularly that I am sure he does it deliberately.
He plays a particular gameplan until other teams have worked it
out, and then switches to the next one - for which he has been
meticulously grooming players, selecting coaches and preparing
tactics in the background. (Remember he let slip that he had
been planning tactics for the All Blacks and Boks since the date
of the RWC2019 draw - one set of which worked brilliantly, and
the other set were completely torpedoed the moment Itoje's elbow
hit Sinck's forehead)
I think he likes to do it that way, because it gives him long
enough to test different aspects of it against the key teams he
needs to beat, but not so long that the opposition can get
familiar with it and work it out. Contrast that with what
Ireland and NZ did in the last cycle - they evolved and
perfected their gameplans throughout the cycle but England had
worked them out in the AIs and 6 Nations. Ireland were utterly
destroyed by that 2019 6N game and had a shocking RWC as a
result. The ABs got away with it courtesy of Lawes' boot and
Marius Jonker's interpretation of clear and obvious [1], but
they had no answer to the England gameplan in the semi-final and
their only points came from an England mistake.
[1] The boot was clearly and obviously ahead of the other
England players' boots, but was it clearly and obviously ahead
of the back foot of the ruck? I don't think it was.
#Post#: 74841--------------------------------------------------
Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
DIR By: Monte
Date: September 22, 2021, 5:53 am
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--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> Er, if you read the article it's making it very clear that
these players have been, as they put it, "culled". Drawn a line
in the sand, etc.
>
> The article might be wrong, but I linked it precisely because
it's saying what we weren't sure about: that these guys have
been dropped and Eddie is moving on from them.
>
>
>
>
>
> But all the press were at the same press conference and only
Guardian chooses the word ‘dropped’ the Times and D.Tel don’t so
I think you have to take it with a pinch of salt.
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 74843--------------------------------------------------
Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: September 22, 2021, 6:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Monte link ---
>
> But all the press were at the same press conference and only
Guardian chooses the word ‘dropped’ the Times and D.Tel don’t so
I think you have to take it with a pinch of salt.
>
--- End Quote ---
I did say "judging by this article" and "the article might be
wrong". They don't print everything Eddie says - the Guardian
certainly has the impression they're goners, and I didn't see
any of the other papers directly stating otherwise. The BBC
reports it like this:
HTML https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/58635746
--- Quote ---
> England boss Eddie Jones says he has "drawn a bit of a line in
the sand" after shaking up his squad for a training camp later
this month.
>
> Billy and Mako Vunipola, Jamie George and George Ford are
among the big names left out of the 45-man squad.
>
> ...
>
> "We are selecting now with the 2023 World Cup in mind," Jones
told BBC Sport.
>
> Jones says the door is far from closed on the players left
out, but says they need to "work out if they want to give it all
for the next World Cup".
>
> He added: "It is not the end of the road. It is an opportunity
for them to refresh, re-energise and re-focus. We will see how
they go."
>
> However, as was the case halfway through the last World Cup
cycle, Jones has started the process of revamping his squad.
--- End Quote ---
and on the front page of their RU coverage it says this:
'"I've drawn a line in the sand' - England coach Jones after
dropping Vunipolas & Ford'
and if I browse to the Times, their headline is
"Jones looks to the future and drops England stars Ford, George,
and Vunipola brothers"
plus
"Even for Jones this is radical - a new, vibrant England is
born"
#Post#: 74844--------------------------------------------------
Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
DIR By: Monte
Date: September 22, 2021, 7:54 am
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Ok but lines in the sand can be wobbled! I am sure you are right
but let’s wait until November or even January and see. For me
the most interesting thing will be if Cockers survives the
season!
#Post#: 74846--------------------------------------------------
Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: September 22, 2021, 8:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Monte link ---
>
> Ok but lines in the sand can be wobbled! I am sure you are
right but let’s wait until November or even January and see. For
me the most interesting thing will be if Cockers survives the
season!
>
--- End Quote ---
For sure, I would expect at least one of those guys to come back
in. I just assumed it was a "resting" job but it does seem like
he's intending to change the team more than initially expected.
Though with Youngs at 9 and Farrell at 12, good luck Marcus...
#Post#: 74848--------------------------------------------------
Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
DIR By: Monte
Date: September 22, 2021, 8:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> For sure, I would expect at least one of those guys to come
back in. I just assumed it was a "resting" job but it does seem
like he's intending to change the team more than initially
expected.
>
> Though with Youngs at 9 and Farrell at 12, good luck Marcus...
>
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> For sure, I would expect at least one of those guys to come
back in. I just assumed it was a "resting" job but it does seem
like he's intending to change the team more than initially
expected.
>
> Though with Youngs at 9 and Farrell at 12, good luck Marcus...
>
--- End Quote ---
That would be a nightmare
#Post#: 74975--------------------------------------------------
Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
DIR By: Bolly-Quin
Date: September 24, 2021, 7:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Monte link ---
>
> That would be a nightmare
>
--- End Quote ---
Doubly so!
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