DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
ComeAllWithin (Harlequins Rugby)
HTML https://comeallwithin.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: ComeAllWithin Board
*****************************************************
#Post#: 74806--------------------------------------------------
Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
DIR By: poorfour
Date: September 21, 2021, 3:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: euroquin link ---
>
> An even more meteoric rise than Lynagh or Kenningham! Has
shown flashes of a bright future but only just made his
premiership debut. Hope it's not another EJ moment where he
invites in young talent only to drop them afterwards.
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't think that's how Eddie thinks about it. I'll nick this
from my own post on 606:
[quote=poorfour, elsewhere]My best guess as to how it works is
that Eddie thinks in terms of multiple generations of players:
1) There are those he thinks have potential, and he wants to
take a look at and give some direction to but he has no
intention of picking. Smith was in this category - brought into
training very early but then left to develop at his club until
Eddie thought he was ready for England and England was ready for
him
2) Those he thinks might be ready and wants to give a try. Some
of them come off and become permanent fixtures (Tom Curry, say),
some disappear without trace (Teimana Harrison anyone?) and
others don't initially seize their chance but Eddie clearly sees
enough in to invite them back at some point (Furbank, Ludlow - I
believe statistically Ludlow was one of the most effective
players in the Prem last season in terms of the sheer number of
positive involvements, and I think that's what Eddie sees in
him)
3) There are those who are established (in Eddie's mind) and are
going to play.
4) There are those who are being given a wake up call by being
sent back to their clubs.
5) There are those who are out and not even tearing it up at
club level will change his mind.
I would also hazard that there is a 6th category which is Joe
Marler and for which the selection criterion is "can he be arsed
to play?"[/quote]
I was right about the last one:
[quote=Eddie Jones]"You take Joe on face value, he is one of the
most honest players I have met," Jones said.
"We had a chat about six or eight weeks ago and he wants to give
it a go. At this stage he is fully committed and we will see
where we can take it because he was in wonderful form for
Harlequins at the end of the season."[/quote]
When Eddie brings a very young player into the squad and then
appears to ignore them for a long period, I think it's generally
because he wants to have a close look at them but doesn't think
they are ready for England or England are ready for them. He
will typically have given them a lot of work ons and will then
monitor them until he is ready to use them.
#Post#: 74808--------------------------------------------------
Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
DIR By: QuincyJones
Date: September 21, 2021, 3:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> Not sure that's true - Marcus is a high-octane stepping threat
with a great short kicking game, Ford is a master game
controller with the best tactical kicking game in the business
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't mean they're carbon copies of each other. I mean they're
both tens that take the ball to the line and have a good
distribution game. They may have slightly different strengths,
but the games they play aren't too dissimilar.
Farrell is an entirely different player to the both of them. Not
his biggest fan, but I can appreciate his place in the squad as
he offers a point of difference.
#Post#: 74813--------------------------------------------------
Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
DIR By: Dibden
Date: September 22, 2021, 1:49 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Jones’ selection policy is in stark contrast to New Zealand
where there is planned slow but steady consistency in
development and succession
as is best practice in any well organised professional business.
Such radical change 2 years out from rwc is an admission he has
made a mess of squad development since Japan.
We will be lucky to get beyond quarter finals in France.It is
certain we will not be serious contenders.If we lose to OZ and
SA in November RFU must consider dismissal but I bet they will
duck the issue as they are in a bigger mess than worrying about
Jones.
#Post#: 74815--------------------------------------------------
Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
DIR By: Fearless Fred
Date: September 22, 2021, 2:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
It's not a direct comparison with NZ, though, as they have a lot
more control over the players at a Union level than any England
Head Coach would have. They get a lot more say over player
workloads, sabbaticals etc than EJ could ever ask for, plus they
have closer integration with the Super Rugby and Miter Cup level
clubs/teams to allow a developmental path for the players that
works best for club, country, AND player which wouldn't be
feasible over here.
#Post#: 74825--------------------------------------------------
Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
DIR By: Yareet
Date: September 22, 2021, 3:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Dibden link ---
>
> Jones’ selection policy is in stark contrast to New Zealand
where there is planned slow but steady consistency in
development and succession
> as is best practice in any well organised professional
business.
> Such radical change 2 years out from rwc is an admission he
has made a mess of squad development since Japan.
> We will be lucky to get beyond quarter finals in France.It is
certain we will not be serious contenders.If we lose to OZ and
SA in November RFU must consider dismissal but I bet they will
duck the issue as they are in a bigger mess than worrying about
Jones.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Personally feel that's a stretch.
England won the 6N in 2017 and Jones' last team of the
tournament was:
Marler
Hartley
Cole
Launchbury
Lawes
Itoje
Haskell
Billy
Youngs
Ford
Daly
Farrell
Joseph
Watson
Brown
George
Mako
Sinckler
Wood
Hughes
Care
Te'o
Nowell
4 of the starting XV from 2017 were completely absent in the
2019 final (Hartley, Launchbury, Haskell, Brown) along with 5 of
the bench (Wood, Hughes, Care, Te'o and Nowell). To my mind, two
of those changes were to injury (Launchbury and Nowell).
He'd added in the likes of Curry, Underhill and May who all came
to prominence after the 2017 Lions tour whilst ditching older
players (rightly or wrongly).
Does that mean that Jones "made a mess of squad development" in
2016 and 2017? England backed up a Grand Slam with a 6N win.
#Post#: 74830--------------------------------------------------
Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: September 22, 2021, 4:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Judging by this article:
HTML https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/sep/21/eddie-jones-omits-five-senior-players-from-england-rugby-union-training-squad<br
/>it would appear that yes, Ford, Vunipolae, and George all have
been outright dropped.
#Post#: 74833--------------------------------------------------
Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
DIR By: A222Quin
Date: September 22, 2021, 5:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
If so I feel that's probably harsh on Ford and Mako Vunipola.
Reckon George could force his way back in but Billy hasn't been
the same player he was for a good couple of years.
#Post#: 74834--------------------------------------------------
Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
DIR By: Monte
Date: September 22, 2021, 5:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> Judging by this article:
HTML https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/sep/21/eddie-jones-omits-five-senior-players-from-england-rugby-union-training-squad<br
/>it would appear that yes, Ford, Vunipolae, and George all have
been outright dropped.
>
>
>
--- End Quote ---
I don’t think dropped is the right word I think he is just
looking at alternatives. But only a short training session and I
don’t think it is necessarily squad for internationals. Maybe he
is looking for a reaction from the ‘oldies’
#Post#: 74835--------------------------------------------------
Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: September 22, 2021, 5:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
It's very harsh on Ford, who has essentially been dropped for
playing the way Eddie forced him to, and who is comfortably one
of the best 2 fly-halves in the country. Farrell continues to be
undroppable no matter how bad he plays. Mako's scrummaging woes
finally catch up with him. Billy has been very poor since before
the world cup. George I think is hard done by, I don't see who's
a better back-up to LCD at this stage.
#Post#: 74836--------------------------------------------------
Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: September 22, 2021, 5:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Monte link ---
>
> I don’t think dropped is the right word I think he is just
looking at alternatives. But only a short training session and I
don’t think it is necessarily squad for internationals. Maybe he
is looking for a reaction from the ‘oldies’
>
--- End Quote ---
Er, if you read the article it's making it very clear that these
players have been, as they put it, "culled". Drawn a line in the
sand, etc.
The article might be wrong, but I linked it precisely because
it's saying what we weren't sure about: that these guys have
been dropped and Eddie is moving on from them.
*****************************************************
Page 4 of 5
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page