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#Post#: 74757--------------------------------------------------
Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: September 21, 2021, 4:28 am
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--- Quote from: QuincyJones link ---
>
> Obviously Farrell is the other ten in the squad besides Marcus
but I think it's more a case of Smith over Ford and Farrell to
cover 10 and centre. I can see why, he offers something
different to Ford and Smith who are very similar in style
>
--- End Quote ---
Not sure that's true - Marcus is a high-octane stepping threat
with a great short kicking game, Ford is a master game
controller with the best tactical kicking game in the business
#Post#: 74758--------------------------------------------------
Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
DIR By: Jedzi
Date: September 21, 2021, 4:38 am
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Only 3 Saracens on there. I think I saw Daly might be injured,
but there's no Jamie George, Billy or Mako Vunipola, Earle and
it wouldn't have been a surprise to have seen Malins, Lozowski
or Isikwe on this long list.
Just seen this quote in the Guardian from Eddie Jones: "We have
left out some experienced players but we’re really clear that
the door isn’t closed to them, and we’re looking forward to
seeing them work hard to get back into contention." That makes
it sound like it's more than just that he thinks they need a
rest or that he knows what they've got to offer.
#Post#: 74759--------------------------------------------------
Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
DIR By: poorfour
Date: September 21, 2021, 4:56 am
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--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> Not sure that's true - Marcus is a high-octane stepping threat
with a great short kicking game, Ford is a master game
controller with the best tactical kicking game in the business
>
--- End Quote ---
I've long felt that Ford was ahead of Marcus in kicking - and
still is - but Marcus had the wider range of distribution, and I
think the gap is now small enough that Marcus's sheer variety as
an attacking threat wins out. As we saw repeatedly over the
summer, it's hard for teams to defend against a player who has
so many options and can choose between them so quickly.
HTML [img]http://[attach=1][/img]
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 74760--------------------------------------------------
Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: September 21, 2021, 5:03 am
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Cool, thanks for that. Not sure what that has to do with Ford
and Smith not playing the same style but there you go.
#Post#: 74761--------------------------------------------------
Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
DIR By: TeddingtonQuin
Date: September 21, 2021, 5:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> I've long felt that Ford was ahead of Marcus in kicking - and
still is - but Marcus had the wider range of distribution, and I
think the gap is now small enough that Marcus's sheer variety as
an attacking threat wins out. As we saw repeatedly over the
summer, it's hard for teams to defend against a player who has
so many options and can choose between them so quickly.
>
HTML > [img]http://[attach=1][/img]
>
--- End Quote ---
That flow chart is hilarious, thanks for sharing it!
#Post#: 74763--------------------------------------------------
Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
DIR By: Bucksquin
Date: September 21, 2021, 5:26 am
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What about Sam Riley being in the squad, guys? How about that?
#Post#: 74767--------------------------------------------------
Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
DIR By: T-Bone
Date: September 21, 2021, 5:54 am
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Great news for all involved. We have decent cover for most of
those positions. Obviously it will affect our training this
week, but realistically very few of those guys will be missing
for the autumn internationals, and it's a good experience for
them, a reward for their play last season and a good reflection
on the strength of the current squad
#Post#: 74768--------------------------------------------------
Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
DIR By: poorfour
Date: September 21, 2021, 5:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> Cool, thanks for that. Not sure what that has to do with Ford
and Smith not playing the same style but there you go.
>
--- End Quote ---
The point is, Ford doesn't do that - he is one of the best in
the world at moving a defence around over 2-3 phases to create
space to overload it on one side or the other. It's the way that
the game has been developing over the last few years, but
defences are starting to find ways to counter it. In particular
South Africa and England focus on shutting down the 13 channel
so that the attackers are forced to take it back inside.
Russell has a similar phase play approach to Ford, but has the
reaction speed to bypass a rush on 13.
The flowchart is a bit of fun, but the more serious point behind
it is that Smith has the potential to take manipulating defences
to another level. At club level he has so many options and can
deploy a lot of them on the fly within a phase with a low chance
of error. He can do the manipulation that Ford does, but if a
defence tries to shut it down, he has the options to do
something else rather than just reset and start the phases
again.
If he can do that internationally, then Ford's longer range
kicking becomes less relevant. One thing I really like about the
squad is that with the right picks he could be surrounded by a
bunch of players who are on his wavelength.
Imagine putting out:
Marler LCD Sinckler
Itoje Lawes
Curry Dombrandt Underhill
Randall Smith
Tuilagi Marchant
Radwan Steward Watson
(Lynagh and Kenningham on the bench...)
#Post#: 74769--------------------------------------------------
Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
DIR By: Portquin
Date: September 21, 2021, 6:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Very useful that Quins have a rest wkd after that camp. Will
help to not disturb our prep for a league game
#Post#: 74771--------------------------------------------------
Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: September 21, 2021, 6:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> The point is, Ford doesn't do that - he is one of the best in
the world at moving a defence around over 2-3 phases to create
space to overload it on one side or the other. It's the way that
the game has been developing over the last few years, but
defences are starting to find ways to counter it. In particular
South Africa and England focus on shutting down the 13 channel
so that the attackers are forced to take it back inside.
>
> Russell has a similar phase play approach to Ford, but has the
reaction speed to bypass a rush on 13.
>
> The flowchart is a bit of fun, but the more serious point
behind it is that Smith has the potential to take manipulating
defences to another level. At club level he has so many options
and can deploy a lot of them on the fly within a phase with a
low chance of error. He can do the manipulation that Ford does,
but if a defence tries to shut it down, he has the options to do
something else rather than just reset and start the phases
again.
>
> If he can do that internationally, then Ford's longer range
kicking becomes less relevant. One thing I really like about the
squad is that with the right picks he could be surrounded by a
bunch of players who are on his wavelength.
>
> Imagine putting out:
> Marler LCD Sinckler
> Itoje Lawes
> Curry Dombrandt Underhill
> Randall Smith
> Tuilagi Marchant
> Radwan Steward Watson
>
> (Lynagh and Kenningham on the bench...)
>
--- End Quote ---
"Smith is better than Ford" isn't the argument here. Ford and
Smith do not play the same way. Rugby is all about manipulating
defences and gaining territory, so the differences in how they
go about this are indeed the differences in their style. It's
been a long time since Ford threatened teams in the same way
that Smith currently does, and he doesn't gamble anywhere near
as often as Smith does. Conversely, his tactical kicking game is
something Smith can learn from.
Both players create space and ease the pressure on their
respective teams, but the way they do it is pretty obviously
different.
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