DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
ComeAllWithin (Harlequins Rugby)
HTML https://comeallwithin.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: ComeAllWithin Board
*****************************************************
#Post#: 87122--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cockers for England
DIR By: Quinston Churchill
Date: March 27, 2022, 2:37 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinten Poulsen link ---
>
> I'd be happy enough with the risk of picking Borthwick. He's
got several years of international coaching experience already
and he turned Tigers around immediately, doing a better job than
anyone else has there for years.
>
> I often hear that Edwards is not international head coach
material, although I've no idea if that's just a silly idea that
gained traction through repetition.
>
> I'd be happy with Baxter too, as he comes across as a very
level-headed, common-sense guy, and he clearly knows his rugby.
>
> Then again, I don't really care too much what nationality the
coach is.
>
--- End Quote ---
It’s a tricky one. Edwards is a serial winner who has been a
massive part of Wales and now France’s success. He is a world
class defence coach, but there’s no actual evidence to suggest
he is more than that. His track record is good enough to suggest
he could be and I’d be open to giving it a try. However, being
the head honcho and the guy who the buck stops with is a very
different role. Hard to say how well he’d cope with that and how
he’d translate his success as a defence coach across all other
aspects of a head coach remit.
I like Rob Baxter a lot. He comes across as a fair and likeable
guy who seems very good at building a culture and bringing
people along with him - both players and coaches. However, I
can’t say I have ever particularly enjoyed watching Exeter play.
They perfected a style that won them domestic and European
honours, but it wasn’t pretty and as it’s become less
successful, they haven’t really adapted. I could definitely get
behind him if he was given a really good coaching team.
#Post#: 87127--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cockers for England
DIR By: MadMax
Date: March 27, 2022, 2:52 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DOK link ---
>
> ....
>
> I'd like to know why the RFU are wedded to the idea of an
English coach. ....
>
--- End Quote ---
For goodness sake just be glad the RFU have finally come up with
an idea.
#Post#: 87129--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cockers for England
DIR By: Mayor West
Date: March 27, 2022, 3:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Edwards might be perfectly happy doing what he’s brilliant at
and might not be right for or want to take on the role of head
coach/DOR or whatever you want to call it. Didn’t he turn us
down for that position? I think you need a head coach who
already has experience of that responsibility and can put others
like Shaun in charge of their speciality and fully trust them to
do that. I get the feeling that Eddie gets a coach in to do a
job and instead of letting them do it their way makes them do it
his way. What’s the point of that.
What you need is a team of coaches that trust each other, get
on well and believe in what they are doing. Like Quins.
#Post#: 87130--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cockers for England
DIR By: MaidstoneQuin
Date: March 27, 2022, 3:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Some of EJs coach appointments have been baffling. His name
escapes me, but we got an attack coach in from the mighty rugby
powerhouse that is Jersey RFC. Funnily enough, last six nations
we were fairly blunt.
#Post#: 87131--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cockers for England
DIR By: DOK
Date: March 27, 2022, 4:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Mayor West link ---
>
> Edwards might be perfectly happy doing what he’s brilliant at
and might not be right for or want to take on the role of head
coach/DOR or whatever you want to call it. Didn’t he turn us
down for that position?
>
--- End Quote ---
I think he turned down running the Saxons for going to Wales.
#Post#: 87170--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cockers for England
DIR By: Yareet
Date: March 28, 2022, 9:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: MaidstoneQuin link ---
>
> Some of EJs coach appointments have been baffling. His name
escapes me, but we got an attack coach in from the mighty rugby
powerhouse that is Jersey RFC. Funnily enough, last six nations
we were fairly blunt.
>
--- End Quote ---
Wasn’t that Andy Robinson’s kid who came in because our Aussie
attack coach was stuck overseas. I understand that he was
implementing the latter’s plans in his absence.
Won’t have been many options for an interim coach but the
Championship weren’t playing at the time, I think.
#Post#: 87173--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cockers for England
DIR By: MadMax
Date: March 28, 2022, 10:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> Wasn’t that Andy Robinson’s kid who came in because our Aussie
attack coach was stuck overseas. I understand that he was
implementing the latter’s plans in his absence.
>
> Won’t have been many options for an interim coach but the
Championship weren’t playing at the time, I think.
>
--- End Quote ---
Ed Robinson who went from assistant coach at Jersey to England
coach.
#Post#: 87178--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cockers for England
DIR By: Banstead Quin
Date: March 28, 2022, 11:26 am
---------------------------------------------------------
We want a side that wins and wins and wins, like all nations do.
6N champs not winning WCs is a red herring as England have got
to semi's and finals after maybe losing one game in the 6N, that
just shows that anyone can lose a game.
I hated SCW and his 'judge me on the WC' rhetoric, especially
after 99 and I did judge him and would have been quite happy for
him to pack his cases after the QF defeat in Paris. He built a
mentality and a culture for 03 but that was helped by the
experience in his side sprinkled with a bit of stardust and we
haven't done that since and have been found wanting.
2007 was a final in spite of the coach (even though it was the
same players who pleaded for him to come in after Andy
Robinson's departure) England lost 2 6N games, 2011 was a coach
with a plan but no players to execute it, as he wanted to rely
on the Leicester model, England lost 1 6N game. 2015, too
painful to recall but again all about the coaching group being
inadequate at the top level, England lost 1 game in the 6N and
then 2019, lack of Plan B when the oppo stood up physically and
we lost 1 game in the 6N.
So, the point of this diatribe is that there is no correlation
between being good in the 6N and what that means about your WC
performance. Just target each tournament to win it and show the
fans that's what you want to achieve, rather than 3 frustrating
years and the possibility of a high in the 4th.
#Post#: 87182--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cockers for England
DIR By: D-Quins
Date: March 28, 2022, 12:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The coach I think can do a job but for obvious reasons will not
even be considered is Dean Richards. He can give England the
hard edge and still play an open flowing game. Newcastle run
with a much smaller budget and for what they have money wise do
I think well. They suffer from people tempting away the good
players Dean uncovers.
#Post#: 87183--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cockers for England
DIR By: poorfour
Date: March 28, 2022, 12:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps because 2015 is too painful for you to remember, England
were far more consistent in the 6N under Lancaster than under
Eddie, but underperformed horribly at the RWC.
Ireland were far more consistent domestically from 2016-2019 but
underperformed horribly at the RWC.
Eddie wants the RWC. It's pretty much the only thing he hasn't
won in his own right. And he believes - with some justification
- that to get there you can't keep playing the same gameplan
over a whole cycle but have to change half way through. This
time, he believes that defences are now so good that a
conventional attack won't cut it, and he's trying to build
something much more fluid than teams are used to. The net result
is going to be a period of inconsistency and fumbling attacks
until he has a critical mass of players who have learned how to
read each other and react on the fly.
This is not an easy thing to do. I'm expecting a chorus of
"these are professional players it should be instantaneous for
them" and even "I'd be fired in my job if I couldn't adapt on
the fly" but the truth is that professional sports teams do need
time to learn new gameplans, and teams of all stripes are
frequently outfoxed when they run up against a plan designed to
counter them. The 2019 Ireland and New Zealand sides couldn't
cope with England's pressure defence, despite having been
clearly the leading sides in the world a few months prior.
I can see how Eddie's approach upsets people who expect England
to win all the time. And I freely admit that it's a high risk
plan; but equally, I think it's high reward too. If Eddie can
get the attack firing on all cylinders it will be hard to stop.
*****************************************************
Page 2 of 3
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page