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       #Post#: 67121--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Selfish idiot 
   DIR By: QuincyJones
       Date: May 28, 2021, 9:32 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Kermitpower link ---
       >
       > I don't think he's being selfish.
       >
       > He's 28 and extremely fit.  The risk Covid represents to him
       is utterly miniscule....blah blah so on and so forth...
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       It's not necessarily his decision I have a problem with, despite
       it being a stupid one. Idiots are entitled to be idiots when the
       consequences only affect themselves. I have a problem with his
       words potentially influencing large numbers of others.
       Plus his arguments just don't stand up to scrutiny. We don't
       know the long term consequences of eating GM food either but I
       bet that doesn't stop him having dinner every night.
       There have been plenty of examples of 'fit' people that have
       died from covid during this pandemic, so his stance is just
       utterly idiotic. He also displays a deep lack of understanding
       over how vaccines work, whinging about being ill after past
       vaccinations. Just total madness.
       The bloke's just displayed his complete lack of intelligence for
       the whole country to see.
       #Post#: 67122--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Selfish idiot 
   DIR By: QuincyJones
       Date: May 28, 2021, 9:33 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Quinten Poulsen link ---
       >
       > Nice to see a common sense post rather than one questioning
       his character and morality.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Where? I haven't seen one.
       #Post#: 67124--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Selfish idiot 
   DIR By: SwindonQuin
       Date: May 28, 2021, 9:43 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Kermitpower link ---
       >
       > I don't think he's being selfish.
       >
       > He's 28 and extremely fit.  The risk Covid represents to him
       is utterly miniscule.  The risk the vaccine represents to him is
       also miniscule, but it's not completely zero, so why should he
       feel the need to run that risk unnecessarily?  I've had it
       myself, but I'm a lardy middle-aged man who is more at risk from
       Covid, so to my mind the reward is worth the potential risk.  If
       I was an ultra-fit bloke in my 20s, I don't think I could say
       the same thing.
       >
       > Now you might say that he's being selfish because he could
       catch it and pass it on to someone else who then dies, but
       again, what is the justification for that view?  The
       overwhelming majority of at-risk people have already been
       vaccinated against it, so the chances of him catching it and
       passing it on to someone at risk are minimal.
       >
       > Let's compare it to the 'flu.  Both Covid and 'flu can and do
       kill significant numbers of vulnerable people, and whilst Covid
       killed a lot more people in the last 12 months than 'flu does in
       any given 12 month period, that's because we vaccinate the
       vulnerable against 'flu!
       >
       > Flu kills around 20,000 people in the UK every year even with
       vaccination of vulnerable people.  According to the CDC in the
       States, 'flu vaccine efficiency varies between 10% to 60% in
       recent years, and averages out at around 40%.
       >
       > Covid killed 100,000 people in a year in the UK, but that was
       100,000 people when we didn't have a vaccine at all.  We now
       have multiple vaccines which are currently being shown to have
       much, much greater effectiveness than 'flu vaccines - many
       studies are showing them up at 80% or more.
       >
       > Unless I've got my maths completely wrong, having vaccinated
       pretty much the entire population with any significant
       vulnerability to Covid, then it's going to be no more lethal
       than 'flu in the future, and probably significantly less so,
       given that we not only had to create Covid vaccines from
       scratch, we also had to determine treatment pathways for it from
       scratch which greatly improved the chances of survival for
       patients as we moved through the pandemic.
       >
       > If Covid with vaccination is going to be similar to 'flu with
       vaccination, why is it selfish of Slade to not get vaccinated
       for Covid when nobody is even calling for people in their 20s to
       be vaccinated for 'flu?
       >
       >
       > I will also say, btw, that the suggestion that he should be
       vaccinated because he's diabetic is complete and utter bunkum!
       Yes, diabetics overall are at greater risk if they catch Covid,
       but in reality, it's not the diabetes itself that creates that
       increased risk.  One major reason is that the majority of type 2
       diabetics tend to become so as a result of a lifestyle which
       also causes significant obesity - which we all know is a
       significant risk factor with Covid.
       > The second factor, for both type 1 and 2 diabetics, is that
       Covid risk is caused not by diabetes itself, but by the various
       pre-existing comorbidities that diabetes tends to create, such
       as heart, kidney and nerve damage.
       >
       > My wife is a type 1 diabetic.  She's 20 years older than
       Slade, and whilst she is very fit and healthy (as a gym
       instructor, she pretty much has to be!), forty years of diabetes
       has taken its toll to an extent, but certainly not to the extent
       that the increased risk from Covid is anything other than a
       point of academic interest.  Slade, on the other hand?  He's
       ultra-fit, has only been diabetic for 10 years, and having been
       diagnosed in the same year he signed his first professional
       contract with Exeter, will have had constant medical and dietary
       supervision which mean he's probably the healthiest diabetic in
       the country!  His diabetes really doesn't increase his risk from
       Covid one iota, and as a fit and healthy bloke in his twenties,
       he's far more likely to be killed in a traffic accident than he
       is by Covid.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       So on that basis should anyone in the 20's/30's/40's who is
       deemed to be or thinks they are healthily shouldn't take the
       vaccine in your opinion, despite, fit and healthy young people
       have died from Covid-19 as its affect people vastly differently?
       Not looking for an argument just interested in individual views
       as its an interesting topic with multiple view points.
       #Post#: 67125--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Selfish idiot 
   DIR By: JammyGit
       Date: May 28, 2021, 9:47 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Dying from COVID and being badly affected by COVID are also two
       very different scenarios with different likelihoods, but both
       are to be avoided.
       #Post#: 67126--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Selfish idiot 
   DIR By: Carbonm
       Date: May 28, 2021, 9:47 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Carbonm link ---
       >
       > What a numpty. Wonder if he would have refused it if he'd got
       on the Lion's tour as they were all vaccinated earlier this
       week.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       The answer is no:
       Henry Slade's decision to abstain from a coronavirus vaccine
       will not affect a potential call-up to the British and Irish
       Lions squad this summer, despite the touring side encouraging
       all standby players to get vaccinated.
       Slade, who is on standby for this summer's series in South
       Africa after being omitted from Warren Gatland's initial 37-man
       squad, said he would not be having a Covid-19 vaccine because he
       "didn't agree with it all" and has suffered adverse reactions to
       past vaccines. The England centre also highlighted that he
       undergoes regular testing with his club, Exeter Chiefs. Slade's
       revelation goes against Government advice and is particularly
       surprising given that he has type-one diabetes, which places the
       England centre at higher risk of developing severe coronavirus
       symptoms.
       Telegraph Sport exclusively revealed this week how all 37
       players in Gatland's squad had received their first doses of the
       vaccine, with the second to be administered during the Lions'
       pre-tour training camp in Jersey.
       As it stands, however, only a negative PCR test result received
       72 hours before departure is necessary for entry into South
       Africa, according to Government advice. Slade's potential
       arrival to South Africa will be uninhibited by a lack of
       vaccine, therefore, but it could disrupt the 28 year-old's
       return to the UK after the tour.
       "We will encourage all players on the standby list to get
       themselves vaccinated, when possible. This doesn't rule them out
       of the Tour, but could potentially affect their quarantine when
       we return from South Africa," said a Lions spokesperson.
       Telegraph Sport understands that Slade's director of rugby at
       Exeter, Rob Baxter, discussed the matter with Slade on Friday.
       Baxter's opinion on Slade's comments are currently unknown.
       Courtney Lawes, Slade's England team-mate, reacted to the
       centre's vaccine revelation by writing on Twitter: "I wonder how
       many people abusing Sladey right now have tweeted “be kind” in
       the last couple of month’s [sic]. Guess we’re not “stamping out”
       online abuse?
       "Thing is I’ll defend your right to say what [you] like, but I
       just want to tell [you] guys, [you] ain’t the good people [you]
       think [you] are." Slade replied with a heart emoji on Friday
       morning.
       Elsewhere, the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation, on whose
       website Slade is listed as an ambassador, informed Telegraph
       Sport that it was reviewing its partnership with the England
       international.
       Hilary Nathan, JDRF Director of Policy and Communications, said:
       "As the type 1 diabetes charity, JDRF strongly urges everyone
       living with the condition to get both first and second
       vaccinations. We will review the nature of Henry Slade's
       engagement with JDRF going forward."
       #Post#: 67128--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Selfish idiot 
   DIR By: Carbonm
       Date: May 28, 2021, 9:57 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Ultimately no-one should be forced to take the vaccine. But as
       others have said to come out and say things like there is no way
       near enough testing to make it safe is extremely irresponsible
       for someone with his profile.
       #Post#: 67131--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Selfish idiot 
   DIR By: Kermitpower
       Date: May 28, 2021, 10:28 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: SwindonQuin link ---
       >
       > So on that basis should anyone in the 20's/30's/40's who is
       deemed to be or thinks they are healthily shouldn't take the
       vaccine in your opinion, despite, fit and healthy young people
       have died from Covid-19 as its affect people vastly differently?
       >
       > Not looking for an argument just interested in individual
       views as its an interesting topic with multiple view points.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I certainly see no more medical reason for them to take it than
       for them to take a 'flu vaccine. It's all politics now.  We've
       vaccinated our vulnerable now in this country.  If another
       country that hasn't done so wants to prevent unvaccinated people
       from travelling to them, that's fair enough, but in this
       country?  No reason at all.
       You're right that some young people have died from Covid, but
       the numbers are truly so utterly miniscule as to be completely
       irrelevant.
       If you go to page 25 of the report on the link below, you'll see
       that over 500 10-24yr olds died in Transport accidents in
       England and Wales in 2017.  That's far, far more than have died
       with Covid, yet when did you last hear anyone suggesting that
       young people shouldn't travel?
  HTML https://www.youngpeopleshealth.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/AYPH_KDYP2019_FullVersion.pdf
       More worryingly, the most common cause of death in that report
       at over 700 young people was "intentional self-harm".  Back in
       October, the London Ambulance Service put out the tweet below to
       say that their suicide and attempted suicide calls had almost
       doubled last year to an average of 37, with most of the increase
       coming from young men who were failing to cope with lockdown.
  HTML https://twitter.com/ldn_ambulance/status/1321566876732952581?lang=en
       Whatever way you look at it, there is no reason to be remotely
       concerned about the health impact of Covid on young people, but
       a lot more reason to be compared about the health impact of
       lockdown on them.
       #Post#: 67132--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Selfish idiot 
   DIR By: Kermitpower
       Date: May 28, 2021, 10:42 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: QuincyJones link ---
       >
       > It's not necessarily his decision I have a problem with,
       despite it being a stupid one. Idiots are entitled to be idiots
       when the consequences only affect themselves. I have a problem
       with his words potentially influencing large numbers of others.
       >
       > Plus his arguments just don't stand up to scrutiny. We don't
       know the long term consequences of eating GM food either but I
       bet that doesn't stop him having dinner every night.
       >
       > There have been plenty of examples of 'fit' people that have
       died from covid during this pandemic, so his stance is just
       utterly idiotic. He also displays a deep lack of understanding
       over how vaccines work, whinging about being ill after past
       vaccinations. Just total madness.
       >
       > The bloke's just displayed his complete lack of intelligence
       for the whole country to see.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       1.  It's extremely unlikely that he ever eats any GM food, or
       that you do for that matter.  We may well eat animals that have
       been fed on GM soy, but that's about the limit of it at the
       moment, mainly because more testing is still being done.
       2.  There haven't been plenty of examples of fit people dying
       from Covid.  There have been a few anecdotal examples, but the
       numbers are statistically insignificant against a population of
       65M+.  Far more fit young people commit suicide, and that has
       increased significantly as a result of lockdown, as has the
       number of people with an unnecessary terminal cancer diagnosis
       as a result.  Take a look at the article below.  There are now
       300,000 people who have been waiting for cancer surgery for more
       than 12 months in the NHS, which is a more than 100-fold
       increase compared to 2019!
  HTML https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanonc/article/PIIS1470-2045(21)00148-0/fulltext
       Of course you might say that that had to happen because we had
       to shut everything down to treat Covid, but what if the result
       ends up being more of those 300,000 people dying of cancer than
       have died of Covid?  Would we still have been right to shut down
       their surgery?
       Look past the anecdotes to the underlying statistics, and the
       damage inflicted on our young as the cost of protecting the
       elderly from Covid is truly horrific.
       #Post#: 67133--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Selfish idiot 
   DIR By: dramaquin
       Date: May 28, 2021, 10:43 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       It's not only about his health and protection
       It's about passing on to others, and protecting the community as
       a whole
       Altruism: willingness to do things that bring advantages to
       others, even if it results in disadvantage for yourself
       #Post#: 67134--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Selfish idiot 
   DIR By: Quinten Poulsen
       Date: May 28, 2021, 10:47 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: QuincyJones link ---
       >
       > It's not necessarily his decision I have a problem with,
       despite it being a stupid one. Idiots are entitled to be idiots
       when the consequences only affect themselves. I have a problem
       with his words potentially influencing large numbers of others.
       >
       > Plus his arguments just don't stand up to scrutiny. We don't
       know the long term consequences of eating GM food either but I
       bet that doesn't stop him having dinner every night.
       >
       > There have been plenty of examples of 'fit' people that have
       died from covid during this pandemic, so his stance is just
       utterly idiotic. He also displays a deep lack of understanding
       over how vaccines work, whinging about being ill after past
       vaccinations. Just total madness.
       >
       > The bloke's just displayed his complete lack of intelligence
       for the whole country to see.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       This isn't a very rational post so the last line is rather
       ironic.
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