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#Post#: 64617--------------------------------------------------
Ringfencing will make the Premiership STAGNANT!
DIR By: DOK
Date: April 25, 2021, 3:33 pm
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Steve Diamond insists clubs and England will be poorer for plans
to end relegation
HTML https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-9507331/Former-Sale-boss-Steve-Diamond-insists-clubs-England-poorer-plans-end-relegation.html
--- Quote ---
> Most impressive player? 'Marcus Smith… best 10 in the
country'. Views on Eddie Jones? 'The right man for the job, but
he's shown too much loyalty to a few players.' Opinion on
Premiership clubs refusing to release players early for the
Lions? 'The clubs should be bending over backwards for the
Lions.'
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 64640--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ringfencing will make the Premiership STAGNANT!
DIR By: A222Quin
Date: April 26, 2021, 3:48 am
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I'd love to see a vibrant Prem and Championship a la Top 14 and
D2 in France but there doesn't seem the will for it to happen.
There's lots of factors that help rugby in France that aren't
here in England including:
- Municipal ownership of stadia that helps reduce costs
substantially
- French club football being nowhere near as strong as it is in
England. The week in week out support for some Championship
football clubs is very impressive.
- Lots of benefactors willing to invest in rugby
Attendances at Premiership clubs are mixed - Sarries have
traditionally struggled to regularly fill 10k, ourselves
Northants, Bath, Exeter, Gloucester all sit in the 10-15k group
while others have far lower numbers. Leicester do get more but
not huge amounts. It suggests that the interest just isn't there
at the moment.
#Post#: 64643--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ringfencing will make the Premiership STAGNANT!
DIR By: poorfour
Date: April 26, 2021, 4:18 am
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--- Quote from: A222Quin link ---
>
> Attendances at Premiership clubs are mixed - Sarries have
traditionally struggled to regularly fill 10k, ourselves
Northants, Bath, Exeter, Gloucester all sit in the 10-15k group
while others have far lower numbers. Leicester do get more but
not huge amounts. It suggests that the interest just isn't there
at the moment.
>
--- End Quote ---
Lots to agree with there - but I think that there is potential
for much higher attendance in the Premiership over time. Bath,
for instance, could attract larger crowds if they could increase
the size of the Rec. Quins reckon they could fill Twickenham for
2-3 times per season. Irish have a nice new stadium and a big
catchment area - and are playing attractive rugby.
Ringfencing could help in the medium term if a team has a chance
to invest knowing that it won't end up in a relegation scrap.
But equally, we just don't know at the moment how sports will
recover coming out of COVID-19. If rugby can get out of the
blocks quickly, it may have a chance to capture new fans and
pent up demand - but it could equally struggle to recapture
existing fans who aren't entirely committed.
#Post#: 64647--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ringfencing will make the Premiership STAGNANT!
DIR By: Monte
Date: April 26, 2021, 4:22 am
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Municipal ownership of stadia is Taxpayers ie you and me paying
is that what you really want?
#Post#: 64651--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ringfencing will make the Premiership STAGNANT!
DIR By: Kermitpower
Date: April 26, 2021, 4:31 am
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The head clashes with the heart on this one.
The heart says that relegation should remain, but the head asks
what is the point? There have been a few clubs who've taken a
tilt at the top flight and then melted away to pretty much
nothing. Other than the current 13 shareholders, only Ealing
have any serious intent when it comes to playing on the Prem, so
is there really any true benefit to just having one of 3-4 clubs
going down every year before bouncing back up pretty much
uncontested the following season?
I'd argue that there's plenty more to worry about before
considering whether or not to have promotion.
#Post#: 64653--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ringfencing will make the Premiership STAGNANT!
DIR By: raedarius
Date: April 26, 2021, 4:36 am
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As it's the Mail, I trust that the value and quality of
Diamond's house features prominently in the story
#Post#: 64662--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ringfencing will make the Premiership STAGNANT!
DIR By: A222Quin
Date: April 26, 2021, 5:04 am
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--- Quote from: Monte link ---
>
> Municipal ownership of stadia is Taxpayers ie you and me
paying is that what you really want?
>
--- End Quote ---
I’ve got no strong feelings on it either way. It wouldn’t happen
here anyway. However it’s substantially easier if you’re using a
public stadium at a low rate to establish yourself as an
aspiring club without the burden of finding a place to play,
leasing/purchasing the land from a usually private individual
who’ll want the going rate for it - in this country a small
fortune.
I’m more pointing out the issues that hamper England having a
championship that is as ‘vibrant’ as Pro D2 en France.
#Post#: 64663--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ringfencing will make the Premiership STAGNANT!
DIR By: A222Quin
Date: April 26, 2021, 5:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> Lots to agree with there - but I think that there is potential
for much higher attendance in the Premiership over time. Bath,
for instance, could attract larger crowds if they could increase
the size of the Rec. Quins reckon they could fill Twickenham for
2-3 times per season. Irish have a nice new stadium and a big
catchment area - and are playing attractive rugby.
>
> Ringfencing could help in the medium term if a team has a
chance to invest knowing that it won't end up in a relegation
scrap.
>
> But equally, we just don't know at the moment how sports will
recover coming out of COVID-19. If rugby can get out of the
blocks quickly, it may have a chance to capture new fans and
pent up demand - but it could equally struggle to recapture
existing fans who aren't entirely committed.
>
--- End Quote ---
True enough on the COVID recovery.
Fair enough, I reckon we could probably do another Big Game each
season and yep, Bath could probably do more too without the
constraints of the wreck. However in the case of Irish, aren’t
they competing for broadly the same set of new fans as
ourselves, Sarries and also Ealing?
#Post#: 64664--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ringfencing will make the Premiership STAGNANT!
DIR By: poorfour
Date: April 26, 2021, 5:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Monte link ---
>
> Municipal ownership of stadia is Taxpayers ie you and me
paying is that what you really want?
>
--- End Quote ---
I think that depends. If we see community sport as something
that benefits society, I can see a case for it. The cost of
maintaining a stadium spread over the catchment area is probably
a couple of pounds a year. If enough people visit the stadium
for an event during the year, that's a fair price to pay.
The experience of our trip to Toulon, where the stadium is
literally built into the back of the Mayoral offices and main
shopping and social hub of the town, with the level of community
spirit around the game ("Welcome Harlequins!" and "Allez les
RCT" alternating with the destination on the buses in town) made
it feel pretty worthwhile, but you'd have to look at the
numbers.
The bigger difficulty is that different clubs are in different
positions. Those who are part time tenants in a soccer ground
may well feel much more positive about the idea than those who
own a ground and see it as a potential or actual asset. But flip
it over and see clubs like Quins and Tigers competing against
clubs who are having a decent chunk of their costs funded by the
local authority and they might feel a bit differently.
#Post#: 64665--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ringfencing will make the Premiership STAGNANT!
DIR By: poorfour
Date: April 26, 2021, 5:29 am
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--- Quote from: A222Quin link ---
>
> True enough on the COVID recovery.
>
> Fair enough, I reckon we could probably do another Big Game
each season and yep, Bath could probably do more too without the
constraints of the wreck. However in the case of Irish, aren’t
they competing for broadly the same set of new fans as
ourselves, Sarries and also Ealing?
>
--- End Quote ---
I think it depends on whether you view it as a scarcity mindset
or not. London manages to support more pro soccer teams than I
can easily remember, so I don't see why it couldn't support more
than one pro rugby club. Admittedly Irish, Quins, Sarries and
Ealing are all pretty close to one another, but they are also
sufficiently different that they should be able to build up
their own fanbases.
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