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#Post#: 64172--------------------------------------------------
Re: What happened after Gustard?
DIR By: Quinston Churchill
Date: April 22, 2021, 8:13 am
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--- Quote from: Kermitpower link ---
>
> Whilst the tries scored for/against make for interesting
reading, it would be really handy to know how many of the tries
conceded in each of the three segments were conceded with the
game already won.
>
> The Wuss game is a good microcosm for that, I think.
>
> Their first two tries were conceded in a flat-out, frenetic
period of open play where it never felt as though they were ever
going to get on top of us, and that the players trusted
themselves to beat any team out there in that sort of game, but
the reality is that there are still teams out there who can beat
us, or at least stay with us long enough for fatigue to kick in,
letting their natural game take over.
>
> The Chiefs game fitted that mould for me. Their second two,
on the other hand, were scored well after we'd put the game to
bed and brought on some of the less experienced players off the
bench to gain some valuable game time.
>
> I don't think we should be too worried about the second
scenario, but it would of course still be nice to close those
out as well.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes. This is an interesting point and one that could also be
applied to other games where we’ve established a big lead
(Gloucester springs to mind).
It is something we need to stamp out though - both Worcester and
Gloucester left the Stoop with a point they should never have
been able to.
#Post#: 64173--------------------------------------------------
Re: What happened after Gustard?
DIR By: poorfour
Date: April 22, 2021, 8:37 am
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The Chiefs and Bristol games, and to some extent the Newcastle
ones, were a very interesting example of the psychology of the
game and the nature of momentum. Once the opposition got a
toehold, Quins didn't have the experience to stop the momentum
and the decisions started to go against them - even ones that
shouldn't have done. At some points it was almost as if the refs
had a mental picture that "these teams shouldn't be losing to
Quins".
I don't know what the solution is for Quins in particular.
Somehow I can't see us becoming great at grinding out a win and
closing down fast flowing games, so perhaps they need to develop
the All Black mentality of "stuff it, we'll just go and score
again". Marcus working on his drop goals wouldn't hurt, though.
#Post#: 64174--------------------------------------------------
Re: What happened after Gustard?
DIR By: stoquin
Date: April 22, 2021, 8:56 am
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--- Quote from: Neil Quinnock link ---
>
> I think we're also far more clinical in attack than under
Gustard. Our points per visit to the 22 must have massively
improved. I remember how frustrating it was to constantly see
knock-ons, turnovers and forward passes near the opposition
line. The players seem to have confidence in their ability and
more patience now.
>
--- End Quote ---
and that is surely tied to the success of the lineout. I
couldn't believe the figures during commentary at the weekend
that we were first for scrum and lineout success in the league.
The change is just there. I agreed comments - I just assumed we
would lose the lineout when we kicked to touch. We had been so
poor in this area for a couple of seasons. Baldwin will be the
biggest lose to us I believe, sorry Browny but you still remain
my favourite Quin.
#Post#: 64175--------------------------------------------------
Re: What happened after Gustard?
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: April 22, 2021, 11:47 am
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--- Quote from: Fearless Fred link ---
>
> I think Swiel was doubly unlucky. In his two favoured
positions he was behind NEv & Browny who would always be picked
first if fit.
>
--- End Quote ---
Always worth looking to see how players do when they leave us.
Urdapilleta carved out a good career in France. Swiel managed
about 5 appearances a season with Newcastle then went back to
the Stormers. He really just wasn't very good at anything except
being quite quick and decently agile.
#Post#: 64177--------------------------------------------------
Re: What happened after Gustard?
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: April 22, 2021, 1:50 pm
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--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> ... Swiel managed about 5 appearances a season with Newcastle
then went back to the Stormers. He really just wasn't very good
at anything except being quite quick and decently agile.
>
--- End Quote ---
Brutal. 😁
#Post#: 64179--------------------------------------------------
Re: What happened after Gustard?
DIR By: Mayor West
Date: April 22, 2021, 2:39 pm
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If Gustard was a defence expert, how come our maul defence now
works much better. In fact everything works better. Is that
because our specialist coaches can coach what they and the
players believe in rather than a head coach that tells them what
he wants, even though it doesn’t work and nobody else wants to
do it.
#Post#: 64180--------------------------------------------------
Re: What happened after Gustard?
DIR By: Saintquin
Date: April 22, 2021, 2:43 pm
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I don't know what's changed exactly but, I do know I like
it!!!!!!!!!!!
:) :) :)
#Post#: 64212--------------------------------------------------
Re: What happened after Gustard?
DIR By: poorfour
Date: April 23, 2021, 4:33 am
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In the case of maul defence, I suspect it's just timing:
Flannery brought very current knowledge of close in forward
play, but he'd only been at the club a couple of months when
Gustard left. I suspect the maul defence would have improved
whether he stayed or not, it's just a question of needing time
for Flannery's coaching to bed in.
More broadly, though, I suspect that Gustard had learned from
Eddie and was trying to apply an international-style game plan
which went against the players' instincts.
We've seen time and again that weak defence (I'm looking at you
Christian Wade) is a barrier to players being picked at
international level, and international defences are much tighter
and harder to break down: they don't have any weak links. At
club level, a player like Care, Smith or Dombrandt (or even Alex
Goode) can see and exploit gaps that just aren't there at
international level.
The change of regime has moved Quins away from the kind of
territorial strategy that works for international teams and more
towards a heads up style of play. That allows Smith in
particular to manipulate defences to create gaps. The phrase
"world class" is thrown around too easily, but I think that in
that aspect of his game Smith is genuinely world class. Perhaps
only George Ford is as good at it.
The other change, as the Murley interview highlights, is a
willingness to allow mistakes. Eddie has his famous pluses and
minuses and I wouldn't be surprised if Gustard was doing the
same - but Murley has said that now the team are much more
willing to try the 3 times out of 4 offload.
Against Wuss we saw a lot of those... but the flip side is that
we will get punished for the ones that go wrong. The next
evolution for the team is in learning to read each other so that
more of these come off (do you remember how well DC could read
Easter's offloads by the end of their time together?) and upping
the scramble defence so that the cost of the inevitable mistakes
is lower.
#Post#: 64220--------------------------------------------------
Re: What happened after Gustard?
DIR By: Quinston Churchill
Date: April 23, 2021, 5:31 am
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Good post Poorfour.
I agree re. Flannery - I think his influence would have grown
regardless of whether Gustard had stayed or not.
I think you could be right about the heads-up rugby too. It’s a
shame Shane Long is not with us now as I’d love to have seen
what he could have offered with a bit more creative license.
#Post#: 64221--------------------------------------------------
Re: What happened after Gustard?
DIR By: poorfour
Date: April 23, 2021, 5:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinston Churchill link ---
>
> Good post Poorfour.
>
> I agree re. Flannery - I think his influence would have grown
regardless of whether Gustard had stayed or not.
>
> I think you could be right about the heads-up rugby too. It’s
a shame Shane Long is not with us now as I’d love to have seen
what he could have offered with a bit more creative license.
>
--- End Quote ---
I've had that thought myself. But maybe NEv and co were
listening even if Gustard wasn't
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