URI:
   DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       ComeAllWithin (Harlequins Rugby)
  HTML https://comeallwithin.createaforum.com
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       *****************************************************
   DIR Return to: ComeAllWithin Board
       *****************************************************
       #Post#: 55823--------------------------------------------------
       O/T ish  Rob Baxter deserves his OBE, but if the Exeter supremo
       has an honour it's hard to see why Mark McCall doesn't
   DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
       Date: January 1, 2021, 4:05 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Even without those tainted trophies Saracens coach has had more
       success at home and in Europe than Chiefs boss
       31 December 2020 • 1:26pm
       Ben Coles (Telegraph)
       To cut out any confusion before we go any further, Rob Baxter's
       OBE is enormously well deserved. Exeter's director of rugby has
       overseen one of the sport's great ascensions to the top of the
       mountain, through the lower tiers to becoming champions of both
       England and Europe in the same season. It's a remarkable
       achievement by a remarkable leader and coach.
       As for Joe Simmonds, Exeter's supreme young fly-half and
       captain, such is his talent that it seems absurd Simmonds has
       more honours from Her Majesty the Queen (one) than England caps
       (none) after he was named an MBE. The ribbing Simmonds will get
       from his brother, Sam, and the Exeter pack is unlikely to end
       for some time.
       And yet one of the first thoughts after hearing about Baxter's
       New Year's honour was to wonder why Mark McCall, the long-term
       Saracens director of rugby, has not received a similar accolade.
       After all, McCall, like Baxter, has won a Premiership and
       European double, back in 2015-16. In fact McCall has won five
       Premiership titles and three European Cups.
       Even if we (quite understandably) scratch off Saracens'
       achievements from the 2017-18 and 2018-19 seasons, when they
       breached the salary cap, the 2015-16 double remains, as does the
       fact that Saracens won back-to-back European titles in 2016 and
       2017.
       Now, McCall picking up an OBE this year was always unlikely
       after the club were shamed and relegated for their actions off
       the field in recent years. But it does beg the question why
       McCall didn't receive any honour at the end of 2016 when
       Saracens were the undisputed best club side in Europe, and
       arguably in the world given the Crusaders were yet to begin
       their hat-trick of Super Rugby titles under Scott Robertson.
       As far as Telegraph Sport understands, McCall has never turned
       down an honour. The Bangor-born former Ireland international,
       based on experience of seeing McCall at awards dinners and in
       post-victory press conferences, would no doubt loathe the added
       attention that comes with receiving one.
       But it's hard to conclude that Baxter should get an OBE for
       reaching the pinnacle of club rugby in Europe and not McCall,
       who even without those tainted trophies has had more success at
       home and in Europe. Like Exeter under Baxter, McCall built a
       unique squad culture at Saracens having arrived as first team
       coach in 2009, before the club became the force we saw in the
       2010s.
       Perhaps the key here is not to get too worked up over who does
       and doesn't receive honours in the first place. But it does
       bring an issue back to the boil which has almost been forgotten
       entirely during the raging hell that has been 2020 - how do we
       feel about Saracens?
       Can we still appreciate everything they achieved during the past
       decade? Or is their record tarnished to such an extent that even
       the titles won before the club were found to be breaching the
       salary cap are now difficult to appreciate?
       Perhaps one day McCall will get the recognition that he
       deserves. On the other hand, perhaps he never will.
       #Post#: 55826--------------------------------------------------
       Re: O/T ish  Rob Baxter deserves his OBE, but if the Exeter
       supremo has an honour it's hard to see why Mark McCall doesn
   DIR By: raedarius
       Date: January 1, 2021, 5:14 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Surprising that The Telegraph publishes something so seemingly
       unaware of the processes behind the Honour system.
       #Post#: 55828--------------------------------------------------
       Re: O/T ish  Rob Baxter deserves his OBE, but if the Exeter
       supremo has an honour it's hard to see why Mark McCall doesn
   DIR By: QuincyJones
       Date: January 1, 2021, 5:36 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       It's ridiculous that any of them should receive honours, for
       being good at their jobs. They're chucked about like sweets
       these days.
       Re Mark McCall: excellent coach, part of a tainted legacy. Very
       short sighted telegraph article. Saracens wouldn't open their
       books so one can only assume further cheating occurred.
       #Post#: 55830--------------------------------------------------
       Re: O/T ish  Rob Baxter deserves his OBE, but if the Exeter
       supremo has an honour it's hard to see why Mark McCall doesn
   DIR By: Yareet
       Date: January 1, 2021, 5:51 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: QuincyJones link ---
       >
       > It's ridiculous that any of them should receive honours, for
       being good at their jobs. They're chucked about like sweets
       these days.
       >
       > Re Mark McCall: excellent coach, part of a tainted legacy.
       Very short sighted telegraph article. Saracens wouldn't open
       their books so one can only assume further cheating occurred.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       But the question is why McCall didn’t get an honour years ago,
       before the cheating had been proven.
       My personal opinion (FWIW) is that the suspicions were already
       floating around Sarries then. Plus the Exeter achievement is
       also their journey over 10 years.
       #Post#: 55832--------------------------------------------------
       Re: O/T ish  Rob Baxter deserves his OBE, but if the Exeter
       supremo has an honour it's hard to see why Mark McCall doesn
   DIR By: MadMax
       Date: January 1, 2021, 5:55 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Ben Coles displaying how little he knows about rugby and how
       lacking he is in integrity.
       #Post#: 55845--------------------------------------------------
       Re: O/T ish  Rob Baxter deserves his OBE, but if the Exeter
       supremo has an honour it's hard to see why Mark McCall doesn
   DIR By: QuincyJones
       Date: January 1, 2021, 9:38 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Yareet link ---
       >
       > But the question is why McCall didn’t get an honour years ago,
       before the cheating had been proven.
       >
       > My personal opinion (FWIW) is that the suspicions were already
       floating around Sarries then. Plus the Exeter achievement is
       also their journey over 10 years.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Yes, that's true. Although they are very different stories, as
       you say. Sarries is a riches to riches story wheres Exeter is
       more rags to riches. Where Sarries have always chucked money at
       problems, Exeter worked hard with what they had, made shrewd
       signings and have only in recent years made big name signings.
       #Post#: 55856--------------------------------------------------
       Re: O/T ish  Rob Baxter deserves his OBE, but if the Exeter
       supremo has an honour it's hard to see why Mark McCall doesn
   DIR By: Mayor West
       Date: January 1, 2021, 12:40 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Does the Telegraph also have the same thoughts on Lance
       Armstrong? After all. he won so much in cycling.
       #Post#: 55858--------------------------------------------------
       Re: O/T ish  Rob Baxter deserves his OBE, but if the Exeter
       supremo has an honour it's hard to see why Mark McCall doesn
   DIR By: Rocker
       Date: January 1, 2021, 12:49 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Ironic that a certain Brian Moore wrote in the very same
       newspaper n 2015 about Salaries (suspected) breaking of the cap.
       That was when they promised to behave in future and threatened
       legal action... Coles like many rugby journalists seems in
       thrall to Sarries.
       #Post#: 55861--------------------------------------------------
       Re: O/T ish  Rob Baxter deserves his OBE, but if the Exeter
       supremo has an honour it's hard to see why Mark McCall doesn
   DIR By: JammyGit
       Date: January 1, 2021, 3:34 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       How did Sarries get on last season when - despite still being
       stuffed full of internationals - they were forced to at least
       pretend they were trying to be under the cap?
       Fifth (once you ignore the points reduction) you say?
       Honours all round, then.
       #Post#: 55864--------------------------------------------------
       Re: O/T ish  Rob Baxter deserves his OBE, but if the Exeter
       supremo has an honour it's hard to see why Mark McCall doesn
   DIR By: quinalan
       Date: January 1, 2021, 5:51 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Really unsure as to how Joe Simmonds has ended up with an
       honour? What’s he done that the whole Exeter squad haven’t? Rob
       Baxter is definitely worthy.
       *****************************************************
       Page 1 of 2
   DIR Next Page