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#Post#: 51741--------------------------------------------------
Re: Champions Cup Final
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: October 19, 2020, 11:56 am
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--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> Not really given that qualification is based on league
positions.
>
> It’s not EPCR’s place to overrule leagues’ disciplinary
decisions.
>
--- End Quote ---
You mean league position that they got by cheating?
There's really no mileage in suggesting that Saracens' cheating
didn't affect their European qualification or seeding.
#Post#: 51745--------------------------------------------------
Re: Champions Cup Final
DIR By: MadMax
Date: October 19, 2020, 1:17 pm
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--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> You mean league position that they got by cheating?
>
> There's really no mileage in suggesting that Saracens'
cheating didn't affect their European qualification or seeding.
>
--- End Quote ---
Exactly. It's just amazing how many people can't (or don't want
to) see that.
#Post#: 51749--------------------------------------------------
Re: Champions Cup Final
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: October 19, 2020, 3:57 pm
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With their "weakened" squad - i.e. keeping hold of most of their
stars and not opening up the books - they managed 13 wins and 67
points this season, which would've seen them in 5th.
Puts it into perspective. If they were truly legal they'd be
mediocre, like us :)
#Post#: 51750--------------------------------------------------
Re: Champions Cup Final
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: October 19, 2020, 3:58 pm
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--- Quote from: Bolly-Quin link ---
>
> Prior to COVID (game changer all round), how many Football
clubs were/are still in a precarious position?
--- End Quote ---
I think a fair few? Certainly I recall teams in danger of going
bust last season outside of the top flight.
--- Quote ---
> How do football clubs stay solvent and rugby clubs constantly
miss profits (except Exeter and, occasionally, Saints)?
>
--- End Quote ---
Massive sponsorship and TV deals. Rugby doesn't have the same
appeal as football.
#Post#: 51759--------------------------------------------------
Re: Champions Cup Final
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: October 20, 2020, 3:53 am
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HTML https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/oct/18/englands-ellis-genge-rugby-union-needs-to-get-with-it-to-prosper
#Post#: 51767--------------------------------------------------
Re: Champions Cup Final
DIR By: Yareet
Date: October 20, 2020, 6:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> You mean league position that they got by cheating?
>
> There's really no mileage in suggesting that Saracens'
cheating didn't affect their European qualification or seeding.
>
--- End Quote ---
I’d argue that there’s an equally insignificant level of mileage
in suggesting that EPCR would ever overrule any of the leagues
regarding which teams have qualified.
For clarity, I’m not for one second suggesting that Sarries
didn’t cheat. Nor that their cheating didn’t improve their
position.
However, whatever we would like to have happened at the time,
there were seen by the Premiership as a team that had qualified
for the Champions Cup.
Once they were accepted by EPCR as a qualified team, Sarries
have (to the best of my knowledge) not broken any of the rules
of the European competition.
#Post#: 51769--------------------------------------------------
Re: Champions Cup Final
DIR By: never sleep
Date: October 20, 2020, 7:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> I’d argue that there’s an equally insignificant level of
mileage in suggesting that EPCR would ever overrule any of the
leagues regarding which teams have qualified.
>
--- End Quote ---
Wow Yareet - I have read this sentence a few times now and there
isn't much clarity :-)
Are you saying that there’s an unequally significant level of
mileage in suggesting that EPCR would be better not to ever
overrule any of the leagues regarding which teams have
qualified?
#Post#: 51770--------------------------------------------------
Re: Champions Cup Final
DIR By: Bolly-Quin
Date: October 20, 2020, 8:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Mayor West link ---
>
> I don’t think you can compare football with rugby as the squad
sizes are different. I’m not fully sure of football squads but I
would think that 30/35 would be the number on the payroll. Rugby
squads will be ten or so higher so less money has to go round
more People. Rugby’s problem is that not enough people are
watching or paying to watch it to cover the costs. The economics
are that costs need cutting. The fact that wages are higher than
most clubs can sustain without wealthy owners putting extra
money in shows how fine the balance is. I believe that in the
EFL you have to run your clubs finances without losses being
incurred. It’s apples and pears.
>
--- End Quote ---
I started my reply to JG with "...its a bit dogs and cats" and
finished it with "its a simple comparison": I know its not the
same, but there are similarities.
Using average salaries takes out the squad size differences.
The number of games played is the main difference that I can
see: we get ~ 30-odd games a season with cups before knock out
stage; Football Championship, Leagues 1 & 2 play 46 games before
any knockout cup games: that's roughly 40-50% more then a
Premiership rugby side - that would surely make a difference,
provided you can keep the attendances high - to the P/L line in
a club's annual accounts.
But that is not a likely scenario in rugby, unless you get
bigger squads with more depth, which then increases the salary
payments even further...
Perhaps if you made rugby union a 12 man game - no back row -
same size pitch and 5 subs, 30 minutes each way. Faster, more
tries as more space, greater entertainment...(holds head in
hands/shame and waits for neutron bomb to detonate in NE Surrey
area...)
;) :o ??? :P :-\ :D
#Post#: 51771--------------------------------------------------
Re: Champions Cup Final
DIR By: Saintquin
Date: October 20, 2020, 8:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> I’d argue that there’s an equally insignificant level of
mileage in suggesting that EPCR would ever overrule any of the
leagues regarding which teams have qualified.
>
> For clarity, I’m not for one second suggesting that Sarries
didn’t cheat. Nor that their cheating didn’t improve their
position.
>
> However, whatever we would like to have happened at the time,
there were seen by the Premiership as a team that had qualified
for the Champions Cup.
>
> Once they were accepted by EPCR as a qualified team, Sarries
have (to the best of my knowledge) not broken any of the rules
of the European competition.
>
--- End Quote ---
If they abided by the laws in the country which they play, they
may not have even been in that competition. Think that is the
reason we can say they cheated to win it.
Though we will never know what would have happened if they
didn't cheat
#Post#: 51772--------------------------------------------------
Re: Champions Cup Final
DIR By: Yareet
Date: October 20, 2020, 10:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: never sleep link ---
>
> Wow Yareet - I have read this sentence a few times now and
there isn't much clarity :-)
>
> Are you saying that there’s an unequally significant level of
mileage in suggesting that EPCR would be better not to ever
overrule any of the leagues regarding which teams have
qualified?
>
--- End Quote ---
Never use one word when 15 will suffice! 🤣
I’m saying EPCR are unlikely to overrule a league as to who has
qualified.
If Prem Rugby say a team has qualified, EPCR will always agree
with this decision.
By saying that qualification is based on the position achieved
in another competition, EPCR absolve themselves of
responsibility for deciding who has qualified.
Which throws up a side question for next season’s Champions Cup.
If the top two seeds from England are the finalists and Wasps
have to withdraw from this weekend’s game, who is the second
English seed? Do Bristol become one of the top 2 seeds? It would
appear so because of Prem Rugby, not EPCR rules.
Back to the Sarries question, one factor which Exeter’s win has
removed is the Sarries (fans’) claim that they needed an illegal
squad to compete in Europe.
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