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#Post#: 50237--------------------------------------------------
Sell HQ and relocate
DIR By: SwindonQuin
Date: September 24, 2020, 11:24 am
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If the RFU is so skint as it seems, would people be open to
selling HQ and relocate the 'Home of English Rugby'
If they did relocate it could help broaden rugby from the
traditional southern lock.
Maybe Birmingham area?
Or to many people's disgust, share Wembley with the FA, there
aren't that many games at hq that bring in the full houses, 3
6nations and 4 autumn internationals plus the prem final. Does
rugby need such a vast expense when there are other stadiums to
use!?
#Post#: 50239--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sell HQ and relocate
DIR By: Quinston Churchill
Date: September 24, 2020, 11:31 am
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It’s rare that England are playing rugby and football
internationals at the same time, so from a
cost-saving/efficiency POV, sharing Wembley wouldn’t be a
totally dumb idea.
Building a new purpose built stadium in the midlands would be
absolutely nuts. AFAIK, here isn’t an existing one with the
capacity needed.
Either way, the RFU wouldn’t want to give up Twickenham after
the recent, massive investment. Not going to happen.
Anyway - who are they going to sell it to? Maybe housing
developers but that probably wouldn’t be enough £ to justify it.
#Post#: 50240--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sell HQ and relocate
DIR By: poorfour
Date: September 24, 2020, 11:55 am
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One of the reasons the RFU has more money than the other unions
is that it owns Twickenham outright. It doesn't have to pay to
play there, and all the revenue from all events goes to the RFU.
They are in financial trouble now because a smart move triggered
a decision that was stupid in hindsight that was compounded by
an event they couldn't have foreseen.
Smart move: hosting the 2015 RWC was hugely profitable for the
RFU, even having committed to the biggest ever payout to WR
Stupid in hindsight: they then spent all of that surplus (and
more) on refurbishing the hospitality suites, failing to spot
that corporate hospitality was being seen as increasingly
excessive and subject to a clampdown. I say stupid in hindsight
because the RFU has generally been pretty good at this before -
the South Stand redevelopment paid for itself within a couple of
years, and was more competently handled than, say, the
redevelopment of Wembley.
Unforeseen bad luck: they might have worked their way through
that (for instance, they've already started offering the
hospitality suites as a venue for business meetings, which could
have worked), but COVID-19 means a year or more with no crowds
at Twickenham, at a time when they have an almighty pile of debt
to service.
However, Twickenham is still a massive, moneymaking asset when
we aren't in the middle of a crisis like this. Selling it to
move somewhere else and groundshare as a tenant would have a lot
of problems:
1) Who would want it and at what price? It's prime land for
redevelopment but you'd need change of use permissions and you'd
need to work out what to do with the stadium. Even if you could
"do a Battersea" and convert it into flats, that's a very long
term project.
2) Where would you go? A groundshare as a tenant is a route to
long term impoverishment, because you pay to play and don't get
any of the revenue from other activities. Developing a new
ground takes time and relies on being able to find a suitable
spot while also having somewhere to play while it's being
redeveloped.
In terms of where you might go, Twickenham's big problem is the
lack of good transport infrastructure. You need to go somewhere
with good rail links in particular. Somewhere on HS2 might be
one option but it's going to be a while before it's usable. I'd
suggest Ashford, but it's going to be a lorry park for the
foreseeable future.
#Post#: 50246--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sell HQ and relocate
DIR By: SwindonQuin
Date: September 24, 2020, 12:31 pm
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Pourfour, that is one of the best written, impartial and consice
responses I have ever read on here, fair play and well done sir.
👍
#Post#: 50247--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sell HQ and relocate
DIR By: dr_miles
Date: September 24, 2020, 12:34 pm
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I always thought that the Wembley replacement should have been
near Birmingham International station - better access for most
of the country.
Ashford has better access from France than Manchester. Or had,
anyway.
#Post#: 50251--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sell HQ and relocate
DIR By: Jedzi
Date: September 24, 2020, 12:52 pm
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The reason that the All Blacks didn't play England at
Twickenham for several years was because of a dispute over
appearance fees.
The ABs perspective was "You're generating huge amounts of cash.
It's not fair, we demand a bigger share." To which the RFU's
response could be paraphrased as "Tough luck. Not our fault you
don't own and run your own stadium."
#Post#: 50267--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sell HQ and relocate
DIR By: Jus-Quin-Time
Date: September 24, 2020, 4:13 pm
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Relocating to a greenfield site close to B'ham International (or
similar) would be excellent but you just wouldn't be confident
that the infrastructure to support it would be any better than
currently exists for HQ. I agree with Poorfour's excellent
analysis but also believe there is no one within the current
establishment that has the drive, ambition or strategic vision
to deliver such a beast even if it was possible.
Oakland Raiders have just moved from LA and opened their new
stadium in Las Vegas, after 4 years of planning and building.
65,000 seats delivered at a cost of $1.8bn - $78m for the land,
$1.33bn construction, $123m on equipment & furniture, $234m on
design & engineering and $31m on infrastructure. it has
parking, within walking distance, for 25,000 cars and shuttle
bus services to all the major hotels along the strip and the
airport. Outside the NFL season it will be used for concerts.
#Post#: 50268--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sell HQ and relocate
DIR By: raedarius
Date: September 24, 2020, 5:42 pm
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--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
> 1) Who would want it and at what price? It's prime land for
redevelopment but you'd need change of use permissions and you'd
need to work out what to do with the stadium. Even if you could
"do a Battersea" and convert it into flats, that's a very long
term project.
--- End Quote ---
I agree with pretty much all of your post, but I'm not sure that
I agree that this is 'prime' land. Either Stoop could be
developed, but Twickenham is a backwater (find things to do/eat
on a Monday or Tuesday evening...) and the centre of London is
moving East. The smart money's elsewhere these days. You'll
get a decent sized residential estate on the site of Twickenham
Stadium, certainly, handily located in the shadow of Access Self
Storage, Howdens and the Summerwood Road Estate.
#Post#: 50269--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sell HQ and relocate
DIR By: QuincyJones
Date: September 24, 2020, 6:10 pm
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It's in the London area raedarius... and that's the only thing a
property needs to be in order to have a hefty price tag on it
and guarantee selling. I'd say that's 'prime'!
#Post#: 50270--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sell HQ and relocate
DIR By: Muzza
Date: September 24, 2020, 7:29 pm
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--- Quote ---
> The reason that the All Blacks didn't play England at
Twickenham for several years was because of a dispute over
appearance fees.
--- End Quote ---
Not fully correct. The international schedule is set by World
Rugby years ahead for the 3 NH autumn internationals whereby the
rules are that home teams get the revenue & the away team get
expenses. There has been a reluctance (with good reasons) by
English rugby not to extend that 3 weeks to play extra money
making tests. Like all extras games outside World Rugby there's
is always negotiation on contracts between two parties, & there
is nothing in it for NZR to play just for expenses. But the
Welsh, Irish (in Chicago), Barbarians etc are up for these
extra money making tests.
--- Quote ---
> Not our fault you don't own and run your own stadium.
--- End Quote ---
The concept of a national stadium here in NZ (or Aust or even
South Africa) is historical not our way as the All Blacks belong
to the country with tests spread over 5 cities. Also in a
country of 5M a dedicated rugby stadium would be an economical
disaster. The ship has sailed on that new build.
On England selling its Twickenham HQ. This would be a
significant change in the way English rugby is structured. Be
careful on implementing radical change as what is written on the
whiteboard never lists "untended consequences"
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