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#Post#: 47365--------------------------------------------------
Re: Things just got interesting
DIR By: garthvnk
Date: August 20, 2020, 12:25 pm
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Renaldo Bothma
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 47368--------------------------------------------------
Re: Things just got interesting
DIR By: Mayor West
Date: August 20, 2020, 1:45 pm
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I did wonder if a lot of the SA players might be sharing
Ronaldo’s attitude towards the political state of SA. My friend
who got out of SA some years ago because of the situation that
Ronaldo has mentioned has a pretty dim view of the Black
leadership since The Great Nelson Mandela stepped down. Mandela
warned that the current situation would occur if things he
recommended didn’t happen. This of course is a very different
situation to what is happening and has happened in the US. It is
more complicated than it first seems. I would think that if you
had been robbed by seven black South Africans at gun and knife
point in a previously safe area because their black leader
didn’t give a stuff about them and was busy lining his own
pockets leaving the area with few jobs or infrastructure you
might have a different perspective.
#Post#: 47372--------------------------------------------------
Re: Things just got interesting
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: August 20, 2020, 6:50 pm
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--- Quote from: toast link ---
>
> Anyone can take a knee as a ‘show’ of support but surely it’s
the long term change of attitude and behaviour of EVERYONE, on
ALL sides of this debate that will make the real difference.
>
--- End Quote ---
Everyone has to change their attitude and behaviour?
#Post#: 47373--------------------------------------------------
Re: Things just got interesting
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: August 20, 2020, 6:54 pm
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I'd be sure to let it be known that I was horrified by their
plight and apologise for my privilege before taking the knee.
#Post#: 47379--------------------------------------------------
Re: Things just got interesting
DIR By: garthvnk
Date: August 21, 2020, 2:34 am
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--- Quote from: Mayor West link ---
>
> I did wonder if a lot of the SA players might be sharing
Ronaldo’s attitude towards the political state of SA. My friend
who got out of SA some years ago because of the situation that
Ronaldo has mentioned has a pretty dim view of the Black
leadership since The Great Nelson Mandela stepped down. Mandela
warned that the current situation would occur if things he
recommended didn’t happen. This of course is a very different
situation to what is happening and has happened in the US. It is
more complicated than it first seems. I would think that if you
had been robbed by seven black South Africans at gun and knife
point in a previously safe area because their black leader
didn’t give a stuff about them and was busy lining his own
pockets leaving the area with few jobs or infrastructure you
might have a different perspective.
>
--- End Quote ---
I am sorry but this post reeks of ignorance.
As a South African of colour, I have no problem if a player
kneels or not as it is their personal choice and as long as they
are doing it for the right reasons. Renaldo in his second post
said he was not kneeling due to religious beliefs (as he only
kneels to God), fair enough. But his original post, the one I
shared above, he clearly asks why must he kneel when they (the
government? citizens?) should be kneeling to the farm murders
and corrupt government. Clearly he has no problem kneeling as
long as it for white interest. That is my problem with Renaldo.
As other posters mentioned, the situation in our country is
quite complex due to this very reasons here, where players are
making this about race. You only need to see the faceboook post
of some South Africans you will see they have a problem to
kneeling for black people. A lot of people in South Africa use
the "BLM marxist"argument as an excuse not to kneel. If you
genuinely are against their political beliefs then by all means
don't kneel. I will support you. My problem is that a lot of
people are using this excuse only.
Also regarding your point about crime. Yes, the crime situation
in South Africa is bad, but it is definitely not a race issue.
It's not like only white south africans are murdered, held at
knife point or gun point. We are all affected by crime and are
all paranoid and frightened of becoming the next victim. The
(right wing) narrative spouted by expats on farms murders in
South Africa being genocide against white people really needs to
stop.
My apologies if this response was a bit off topic or political
in nature, but I think a fair reflection is needed.
PS. South Africa is a beautiful country, and as long as you
stick to the tourist areas and have your wits about you, you
will be more than safe. So tourist, you are welcome :)
#Post#: 47382--------------------------------------------------
Re: Things just got interesting
DIR By: toast
Date: August 21, 2020, 4:45 am
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--- Quote from: RodneyRegis link ---
>
> Everyone has to change their attitude and behaviour?
>
--- End Quote ---
No, my point was that the symbolism of taking a knee is just
that symbolism, and until there is a change in all behaviours
(as there is racism and other issues on all sides of the
argumentJ that nothing positive will truly occur.
A couple of examples of this: there is a professional
footballers association and a police officers association so why
did a specific Black version of both need to be created?
Obviously it was perceived that the original association wasn’t
providing the necessary support for certain members, but by
creating these alternative associations doesn’t it just
emphasise the difference between groups of people based purely
on colour?
I don’t profess to know the answers or fully understand all the
intricate details but neither ‘side’ is IMHO immune from racism,
in my eyes a person is a person and respect should be given to
everyone no matter of their colour, creed, sex or disability
perhaps a simplistic view but that’s the way I try and lead my
life and I am comfortable with it.
#Post#: 47438--------------------------------------------------
Re: Things just got interesting
DIR By: Mayor West
Date: August 21, 2020, 1:27 pm
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Garthvnk, I totally agree with you, I’m not sure why you think
it reeks of ignorance . I was just pointing out that some people
might have a different perspective because certain things have
happened to them . I’m merely passing on a South Africans
account of what happened to them and why they might not be so
keen to take the knee. Another example was the Irish footballer
who wouldn’t wear a poppy because of what the British army had
done to his family. As I said the problems in the US are very
different from the ones in SA.
#Post#: 47446--------------------------------------------------
Re: Things just got interesting
DIR By: Bayernquin
Date: August 21, 2020, 4:15 pm
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FFS anything Rugby and/or Quins do to eradicate racism, sexisism
or other forms of descrimination is only for the good, if it
upsets you leave our beloved game! I'd rather sit next to a
Welshman than a racist!. Keep everything in focus, atm there is
bad shit happening around the world (and in out
small world at the moment). If you're anti support for equality
campaigns.why? What do you have to lose? Yellow, brown, white,
black, saracen, pink, we are rugby!
Flame me to death, I am what I am, prop (still at 57), active
for 47 years, perturbed by the incandescent or hidden racism in
some posts here.
Quins are multicoloured!
#Post#: 47448--------------------------------------------------
Re: Things just got interesting
DIR By: Quinten Poulsen
Date: August 21, 2020, 6:06 pm
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Can you be more specific about the incandescent and hidden
racism on this thread?
#Post#: 47460--------------------------------------------------
Re: Things just got interesting
DIR By: MadMax
Date: August 22, 2020, 6:06 am
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--- Quote from: Quinten Poulsen link ---
>
> Can you be more specific about the incandescent and hidden
racism on this thread?
>
--- End Quote ---
"I'd rather sit next to a Welshman than a racist!" possibly?
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