DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
ComeAllWithin (Harlequins Rugby)
HTML https://comeallwithin.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: ComeAllWithin Board
*****************************************************
#Post#: 47196--------------------------------------------------
Re: Things just got interesting
DIR By: Mayor West
Date: August 18, 2020, 11:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
My question would be why our SA players did kneel and theirs
didn’t.
#Post#: 47198--------------------------------------------------
Re: Things just got interesting
DIR By: GillQuin
Date: August 18, 2020, 11:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Individual choice in a free society.
#Post#: 47200--------------------------------------------------
Re: Things just got interesting
DIR By: Spitfire
Date: August 18, 2020, 12:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Nobody is "forced" to wear rainbow laces, many don't. Ugo and
others have been very clear that this should be an entirely
personal choice and we shouldn't be victimising those who do or
don't participate. That has certainly been the way I've seen the
British media approach it.
#Post#: 47201--------------------------------------------------
Re: Things just got interesting
DIR By: MaidstoneQuin
Date: August 18, 2020, 1:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Whilst I understand the gesture of taking the knee, what DOES it
actually achieve? It’s no different to every year there’s T
shirts for kick racism out of football etc, but it seldom
changes the fundamental reasons surrounding it.
All taking the knee has turned into, is forced social compliance
where negative things are assumed from not doing it. A bit like
how some people religiously clapped the NHS and any neighbour
not taking part is somehow criticised.
I’ll take a knee when I get my knighthood for services to
message boards from Her Majesty, but that’s about it. Does it
mean I’m racist? No, but from not doing what the media and
society have created it’s certainty implied.
#Post#: 47205--------------------------------------------------
Re: Things just got interesting
DIR By: DOK
Date: August 18, 2020, 3:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I think in the UK there is a view more that people's gestures
are their own affair. I think things are different in South
Africa, given their history, and these things are much more
under the microscope and people are challenged on them more. I
don't say that's good or bad, but you surely can't be South
African, not bend a knee, and not expect someone to ask you for
your reasons - are you some sort of closet racist? I know all
these players are from the modern era rugby wise. I mean Nelson
Mandela became President of SA in 1994. So any player 26 or
younger has actually never known white rule in SA. I dunno the
ages of the Sale players, but even a 30 year old probably can't
really remember white rule given they'd be about 4 when Mandela
took over.
#Post#: 47211--------------------------------------------------
Re: Things just got interesting
DIR By: never sleep
Date: August 18, 2020, 5:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
South Africa is a very complex country.
Some of the racism that I saw whilst living there would make
your hair curl.
There is also a lot of resentment between the groups.
Something like taking the knee puts the players in an awful
position especially the ones who still have family back home.
The best approach is to get the clubs to tell the players to
comply and then the players can just kneel and move on.
#Post#: 47214--------------------------------------------------
Re: Things just got interesting
DIR By: DOK
Date: August 18, 2020, 5:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote=rugby365]
Meanwhile, in England, Sale Sharks boss Steve Diamond has
described the controversy over his South African players’
refusal to take a knee prior to last Friday’s Premiership
restart match versus Harlequins as a “storm in a teacup”.
“Four of our players took the knee and that is their entitlement
and the rest didn’t,” he said. “It will be a storm in a teacup
and we all wore the Rugby Against Racism t-shirts which we
thought was important. I don’t think it is too much to worry
about if I am honest.”
[/quote]
#Post#: 47221--------------------------------------------------
Re: Things just got interesting
DIR By: Jus-Quin-Time
Date: August 19, 2020, 3:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Prior to the game Ugo Monye was part of the discussion regarding
BLM and 'taking the knee'. He spoke eloquently, passionately
and he brought clarity to the argument. In short:
- He acknowledged that 'taking the knee' was a personal choice.
In the same sentence he also recognised that 'not taking the
knee' should and could not be interpreted as the individual
holding racist views. In this regard he observed that one of
Sale's (caucasian) South African players who would not be
kneeling had, with his wife, adopted a black child and this was
evidence (if any was required) that he was not racist.
- He very carefully distinguished and separated the symbology of
kneeling. Martin Luther King was the first significant US
leader to adopt kneeling as a civil rights demonstration of
'praying for salvation and equality amongst people'. The act
was largely consigned to history until it was recently hijacked
and politicised by the BLM movement. Ugo trod a fine line here.
His contention was that kneeling for the reasons espoused by
MLK remained as valid today as they were in the 1960's. He
avoided direct comment on kneeling for BLM.
The South African article and the language it contains is
extraordinary. A direct relationship is established between not
kneeling and demonstrating a racist attitude. This is
fundamentally wrong because the observer is choosing to apply
their own interpretation onto another persons actions.
'Freedom of expression' is a fundamental pillar of a liberal
democracy. When I see "We are ready to take whatever steps
necessary to ensure that people toe the line and those who are
racist are taught to embrace other people" I begin to see echos
of similar statements made by people with much more sinister
outcomes.
Teaching, or more fundamentally 're educating' people to follow
an idealogical utopia was a central theme of Pol Pot. Its not a
good place to go!
#Post#: 47251--------------------------------------------------
Re: Things just got interesting
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: August 19, 2020, 6:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
"that they are towing the line with what the RFU"...
Oh, pull the other one!
#Post#: 47271--------------------------------------------------
Re: Things just got interesting
DIR By: Domestos
Date: August 19, 2020, 7:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: deadlyfrom5yardsout link ---
>
> "that they are towing the line with what the RFU"...
>
> Oh, pull the other one!
>
--- End Quote ---
Toe, toeing, not tow, towing.
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toe_the_line
No, it's o.k.
HTH.
*****************************************************
Page 3 of 5
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page