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#Post#: 47110--------------------------------------------------
BAME representation in rugby
DIR By: Adrian
Date: August 17, 2020, 3:56 am
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Not sure if this has already been shared on this forum
previously.
Following the BLM and BAME participation in rugby discussions
over the weekend, I wondered what Tosh Masson was up to these
days, my search brought up this article which I thought was an
interesting read.
HTML https://www.rugbyworld.com/in-the-mag/bame-representation-rugby-110547
#Post#: 47112--------------------------------------------------
Re: BAME representation in rugby
DIR By: Spitfire
Date: August 17, 2020, 7:38 am
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That was really interesting, thanks for posting.
#Post#: 47120--------------------------------------------------
Re: BAME representation in rugby
DIR By: Adrian
Date: August 17, 2020, 10:13 am
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--- Quote from: Quintok link ---
>
> Dear God, another BLM / BAME thread!
>
--- End Quote ---
So pleased it interested you enough to comment.
#Post#: 47125--------------------------------------------------
Re: BAME representation in rugby
DIR By: Quinten Poulsen
Date: August 17, 2020, 11:48 am
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Rugby may end up going the same way as soccer with non-BAME
players seriously under-represented.
#Post#: 47127--------------------------------------------------
Re: BAME representation in rugby
DIR By: KiltedQuin
Date: August 17, 2020, 12:39 pm
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--- Quote from: Quintok link ---
>
> Dear God, another BLM / BAME thread!
>
--- End Quote ---
It's actually a very positive piece. You should read it, it is
an interesting read. It might not change your mind but it should
help widen i
#Post#: 47129--------------------------------------------------
Re: BAME representation in rugby
DIR By: DOK
Date: August 17, 2020, 2:20 pm
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Yes, I know it's another BAME thread, but this is the topic of
the moment for a number of reasons and I think it's good that
we're getting to discuss something that usually bobs along just
under the waterline.
A number of good points there. Glad to see people aren't
screaming for immediate representation or quotas or the like.
But yes, in the end I would hope it does naturally happen that
the upper echelons of rugby management and coaching reflect more
the ethnic makeup of society in general.
[quote=Off Topic]
And nice to be reminded what has happened to Andy Keast, I'd
lost track of him. For those of more recent memory, Andy Keast
worked with Dick Best in the mid nineties, following a player
revolt over Best's approach to being DOR, he was made Harlequins
DOR. Seemed to be doing a good job but was unceremoniously
bundled out of the job for the Zinzan Brooke/John Gallagher axis
who made a pigs ear of the job until Mark Evans restored sanity.
[/quote]
#Post#: 47133--------------------------------------------------
Re: BAME representation in rugby
DIR By: MaidstoneQuin
Date: August 17, 2020, 3:23 pm
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I personally don’t think there’s a major issue in rugby with
BAME representation.
3 of our starting XV were players I’d consider BAME, which is
20%. Considering 80% of England is white, it’s probably a fair
reflection.
Just picking a recent England match vs Wales the figure was 33%.
Whilst more representation is always a good as it will break
down barriers with some communities to turn to the sport, I
think a bigger barrier is actually class representation rather
than anything else (as in rugby is seen as an elitist toffs
sport where you have to have attended Eton or Whitgift to have a
chance of joining a big club).
#Post#: 47136--------------------------------------------------
Re: BAME representation in rugby
DIR By: Twickersman
Date: August 18, 2020, 1:36 am
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--- Quote from: MaidstoneQuin link ---
>
> I personally don’t think there’s a major issue in rugby with
BAME representation.
>
> 3 of our starting XV were players I’d consider BAME, which is
20%. Considering 80% of England is white, it’s probably a fair
reflection.
>
> Just picking a recent England match vs Wales the figure was
33%. Whilst more representation is always a good as it will
break down barriers with some communities to turn to the sport,
I think a bigger barrier is actually class representation rather
than anything else (as in rugby is seen as an elitist toffs
sport where you have to have attended Eton or Whitgift to have a
chance of joining a big club).
>
--- End Quote ---
Totally agree. Racism is awful and needs eradicating but class
in this country is as big an influence.
#Post#: 47153--------------------------------------------------
Re: BAME representation in rugby
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: August 18, 2020, 5:17 am
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Talking of BAME representation.....
Cadogan sets sights on restoring the club's glory days after
becoming the first black coach in the women's elite game
By
Fiona Tomas
18 August 2020 • 8:00am
If there is one consolation women’s rugby can take from having
its domestic season sabotaged by coronavirus, perhaps it is that
the elite game in this country now has its first black head
coach.
Mark Cadogan was appointed by Richmond Women last month
following the side’s relegation from the Premier 15s, England’s
top-flight, which was halted in March due to the pandemic.
His appointment was a welcome addition in English club rugby, a
domain hardly revered for its coaching diversity.
He plays down the irony of his appointment coming in the wake of
the Black Lives Matter movement, insisting that it was the
pandemic which opened the door for him to take the reins at one
of the country’s oldest women’s rugby clubs.
“It was really an alignment of planets,” says Cadogan, who
previously was in charge of Harlequins’ women’s development
team. “Realistically, if the season had still taken place, it
would have taken us into May, assuming Harlequins got into those
play-off spots, and then hopefully the final.
“The timing may have been out there. I knew a few of the
personalities at Richmond and I’ve always liked them as a club.
They’ve got a rich heritage and they’re really open in terms of
welcoming new people.”
That Premer 15s will no longer be operating a development league
from next season also played a part in Cadogan’s move. His first
job will be to rebuild Richmond – one of the most decorated
women’s rugby clubs not just in England, but the world, with 25
league and cup successes, six National Sevens wins and four
European Championships – following its demotion to the
Championship.
Cadogan fell into coaching in the same way most enthusiastic
rugby fathers do, after being asked to help out in the junior
sections at Rosslyn Park, where his two boys started out.
His first experience of women’s rugby came almost by chance
after trials at Surrey Sports Park for Harlequins piqued his
curiosity. He popped along, knowing the club was on the lookout
for community coaches, but got more than he bargained for. “I
was asked to run one of the stations for the trial and I was
offered an opportunity to coach regularly with the team,” he
says. “I suppose you create your own luck.”
As women’s development head coach at Harlequins, he worked
closely with Gary Street, widely regarded as one of the best
coaches in the female game, having masterminded England’s World
Cup winning campaign in 2014.
Street and former Scotland international Karen Findlay vacated
their posts as joint coaches of the women’s senior side earlier
this summer. Did Cadogan not fancy a stab at one of the top
coaching jobs in the women’s game?
“If I’m honest, I think it was too early for me,” he says. “Not
having had a head coach role in a very competitive,
performance-based league, you need to earn your stripes, put
time in and really hone your craft, so you’re comfortable in
that position.”
His carefully-measured response speaks volumes of the growing
standards of top-flight women’s rugby. Cadogan has seen the
evidence with his own eyes and is momentarily more interested in
discussing Rachael Burford, the Harlequins captain, and her
exceptional ability to pass off both hands at speed.
What is clear is that he does not want his ethnicity to be a
focus. As a former Sandhurst officer, he joined the Army in the
1980s at a time when there were few black officers, but he
insists his ethnicity has never been his main focus.
Historically, diversity has been far from a focal point at the
Rugby Football Union, whose 61-person council has just one black
member, Maggie Alphonsi. The body has committed to increasing
the number of BAME members in the wake of the Black Lives Matter
movement and says it is “determined to accelerate change.”
Cadogan says: “Success sometimes makes people colour blind,
whether that be in the boardroom, in sport, entertainment. To a
degree, I think when people perform well there is an element of
people looking beyond just their skin colour.
“Are there enough coaches of colour within the elite game? The
numbers would suggest no. As to why that is, that’s probably
subject to a far longer, deeper conversation. It’s not something
that’s solvable overnight.”
#Post#: 47172--------------------------------------------------
Re: BAME representation in rugby
DIR By: GillQuin
Date: August 18, 2020, 6:26 am
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[quote author=Twickersman link=topic=2815.msg47136#msg47136
date=1597732594]
Totally agree. Racism is awful and needs eradicating but class
in this country is as big an influence.
[/quote
I think Ugo made this point about class in rugby before the game
on Friday. It's such a pity that so few schools play rugby,
cricket, hockey or lacrosse these days. Probably due to lack of
available playing grounds, no funding for groundsmen or other
upkeep, lack of money for equipment and most of all a lack of
money for good sports teachers and coaches. If you don't
increase participation in state schools then isn't it likely
that there will be a lack of racial and class diversity in
rugby. Local clubs can't be expected to solve the situation.
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