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#Post#: 46889--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: Well Said, Ugo comments
By: Quinten Poulsen Date: August 14, 2020, 6:37 am
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How meaningful are those stats on their own though? For example,
I read a piece on the BBC recently on institutional racism that
was framed around the fact that black people are something like
2 to 3 times more likely to die in police custody that white
people in this country. Further down the article was for me a
far more meaningful stat - for the demographic of people who
actually do get put into police custody then a white person is
25% more likely to die. Of course I have to applaud the BBC for
actually reporting that second stat - a lot of media outlets
wouldn't have bothered - but there's no doubt what the message
was. So for police custody deaths which of those stats is a more
meaningful indication of the existence of institutional racism
in the police force?
Black people are killed in the US by police in the proportion
that would be expected when looked at in terms of the number of
people who have involvement with the police and violent crime.
Unfortunately it seems that any disparity that doesn't favour
the black population is immediately assumed to be due to racism.
#Post#: 46907--------------------------------------------------
Re: Well Said, Ugo
By: RodneyRegis Date: August 14, 2020, 8:59 am
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[quote author=Cookie link=topic=2807.msg46886#msg46886
date=1597404445]
How on earth can you expect people who have been suppressed to
just forget about it and move on? One of the things I am
learning is that I have enjoyed white privilege for all of my
life and I need to try and put myself in the shoes of others to
understand what they've been through and bring about change. The
people who have the best chance of bringing about change are
people like me, not asking black men and women to forget about
the injustice they've suffered for centuries.
And I have looked up the stats. The US is 76% white and yet only
41% of those killed by police were white. 13% of the US is black
and yet 22% of those killed are black. Do you think these
'challenge the narrative that's generally spouted' (odd phrase
to use, by the way)? Seems to me it proves it very clearly.
[/quote]
Come on.
Unless you think police are going around killing people at
random on the street, those stats are completely redundant.
The relevant statistic is the proportion of people killed when
in custody, not as a percentage of the entire population.
The problem is not US police killing black people in cuistody.
It's US police killing people in custody.
#Post#: 46909--------------------------------------------------
Re: Well Said, Ugo
By: Cookie Date: August 14, 2020, 9:05 am
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Why are you getting so hung up on custody? George Floyd was
killed on the street. Breonna Taylor was killed in her own home.
In her home!!!
Maybe you're not seeing what I'm seeing, but every single day
it's abuse of black people. When was the last time you saw or
even heard of an illegal murder of a white person by a police
officer.
One of the worst I saw the other day was when several people
called the police as a white homeless guy had pulled a knife on
3 black kids waiting for a bus. Police turned up and pointed all
their weapons at the black kids. The real criminal walked away.
#Post#: 46911--------------------------------------------------
Re: Well Said, Ugo
By: Cookie Date: August 14, 2020, 9:07 am
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[quote author=RodneyRegis link=topic=2807.msg46907#msg46907
date=1597413598]
Unless you think police are going around killing people at
random on the street, those stats are completely redundant.
[/quote]
And I do think this, because they are - I named just 2 above.
The evidence is all to easy to find.
#Post#: 46916--------------------------------------------------
Re: Well Said, Ugo
By: RodneyRegis Date: August 14, 2020, 9:27 am
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[quote author=Cookie link=topic=2807.msg46911#msg46911
date=1597414077]
And I do think this, because they are - I named just 2 above.
The evidence is all to easy to find.
[/quote]
Custody, involvement. It's obvious what I mean. You think Floyd
was a random killing?!
The Taylor killing looks like a disaster of epic proportions,
but I'm not sure how it can be attributed to racism.
There were over 1000 white people killed by police in the US
over the past 3 years, and no I don't hear anything about a
single one of them.
Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not claiming for a second
that institutional racism is not endemic in the US Police force,
or that they are anything other than thoroughly incompetent. I'm
just pointing out that there are serious misconceptions about
the disparity when it comes to police brutality, and that it's a
problem in a country which is fubar - I don't think there's
anything wrong with saying that we don't have anywhere near the
same issue in the UK.
You started this conversation about racism issues in rugby. I'm
not sure why it's now a discussion about US police homicide.
#Post#: 46918--------------------------------------------------
Re: Well Said, Ugo
By: Cookie Date: August 14, 2020, 9:40 am
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No, I didn't. I started a conversation about racism and rugby's
attempt to do their part in stamping it out.
Then we got into a ridiculous sidetracked debate about what
colour people kill each other, seemingly in an attempt to play
down the fact that society is inherently racist and there's not
much point in trying to do anything about it.
#Post#: 46924--------------------------------------------------
Re: Well Said, Ugo
By: Le Tiss Date: August 14, 2020, 10:02 am
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for what its worth a read an interesting article that suggested
toxicology tests on George Floyd suggested he had fatal levels
of drugs in him and was acting erratically and struggling to
breathe when the police arrived.I am certainly no expert on any
of this and the article goes on a bit, but the exchanges
presumably captured on officers recording equipment are
interesting. whatever the outcome of this, I certainly do not
believe the officers acted in George Floyds best interests at
the outset if he was indeed struggling medically.
HTML https://spectator.org/george-floyd-death-toxicology-report/
.
sometimes all is not as it seems, and sometimes it is. The
courts will decide eventually.
#Post#: 46926--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: Well Said, Ugo comments
By: Carbonm Date: August 14, 2020, 10:04 am
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[quote author=Quinky link=topic=2807.msg46838#msg46838
date=1597392630]
It may be that people DO understand it, but have a different
view.
The whole country could takle a knee, and it wouldn't make a
difference IMO.
But here's a little fact that the BLM movement seems to dodge:
the biggest threat to young black males is other young black
males. It seems that BL don't necessarily M to other BLs.
[/quote]
Clapping for the NHS didn't make any difference to the Covid
situation but it showed solidarity at the time. Not everyone
joined in and it stopped eventually, as will this, but the
point was made.
#Post#: 46927--------------------------------------------------
Re: Well Said, Ugo
By: JammyGit Date: August 14, 2020, 10:11 am
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Le Tiss
Counter-point:
HTML https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/25/opinion/george-floyd-toxicology-report-drugs.html
HTML https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/george-floyds-autopsy-and-the-structural-gaslighting-of-america/
And the two autopsies made it clear what killed him:
[quote]The Hennepin County Medical Examiner ruled that Floyd's
death was a homicide due to "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating
law enforcement subdual, restrain and neck compression."
An independent autopsy found that the death was "homicide caused
by asphyxia due to neck and back compression that led to a lack
of blood flow to the brain."
"What we found is consistent with what people saw," former New
York City chief medical examiner Dr. Michael Baden, who
performed the independent autopsy, said. "There is no other
health issue that could cause or contribute to the
death."[/quote]
#Post#: 46929--------------------------------------------------
Re: Well Said, Ugo
By: Le Tiss Date: August 14, 2020, 10:21 am
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As i say I am no expert and I am sure the opposing medical
practitioners will have their say in court. I just find the
transcripts of the exchanges interesting. I am not nailing my
colours to any particular mast in this. It is a tragic incident
regardless of the root cause. A man lost his life and that is
awful. The exchanges certainly paint an interesting angle on
things. He was acting erratically/irrationally when the police
arrived, the exchanges confirm that. He was claiming to be
struggling to breathe when the police arrived, again the
exchanges seem to confirm that also. Assuming the exchanges are
being accurately reported then something weird was going on. As
I say the court will decide on all of this, and as I said
before, i do not think they acted in his best interests if he
was struggling medically.
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