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#Post#: 46876--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: Well Said, Ugo comments
DIR By: Cookie
Date: August 14, 2020, 5:32 am
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--- Quote from: Spitfire link ---
>
> Agreed, just as it’s completely fine for anyone to choose not
to kneel for their own personal reasons, they also have a right
not to be victimised for doing so.
>
--- End Quote ---
I agree that it's a personal choice. But I'm not sure I see
where the problem lies. The reason it's so contentious is that
players take the knee during the national anthem. That's the bit
that's deemed disrespectful. It escalated last night where the
players were booed and had things thrown onto the pitch. The
irony there being the people complaining were actually booing
the anthem, which seems to go against exactly what they're
complaining about.
#Post#: 46878--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: Well Said, Ugo comments
DIR By: never sleep
Date: August 14, 2020, 5:35 am
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--- Quote from: Cookie link ---
>
> Appreciate you reminding me of the reason I didn't bother
coming here for 6 months, though.
>
--- End Quote ---
Cookie - Personally - I am glad to see you back.
I wouldn't kneel - but would take part in another gesture.
But - I do feel for sports people that choose not to. I guess
that they need to avoid Twitter for a few weeks afterwards.
#Post#: 46879--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: Well Said, Ugo comments
DIR By: Quinky
Date: August 14, 2020, 5:50 am
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--- Quote from: Cookie link ---
>
> I didn't say racism would disappear, did I? It would be nice
to think we might try something that might help, though. Neither
did I say racism is confined to white people - clearly it's not.
But maybe, just maybe, if black people hadn't been suppressed
for hundreds of years, things might be a bit calmer. And I don't
know the facts on the % of white and black men killed by the
police, but given how white men massively outnumber black men,
that would seem an obvious assumption. Struggling to understand
the point you're making, mind.
>
> Appreciate you reminding me of the reason I didn't bother
coming here for 6 months, though.
>
--- End Quote ---
I personally don't see how kneeling has any impact on racism
whatsoever. I'd expect people not to be racist, but there will
always be some who are. Those who are, will be unlikely to
kneel. They'll also be unlikely to think "He, Joe Marler took
the knee. Maybe racism IS wrong after all...".
Maybe if people looked ahead instead of constantly trying to
rake up history, things would be calmer. Maybe if people just
focused on themselves and stopped trying to make others see
things their way, things would be calmer.
Maybe you don't know the stats, so maybe you should look them
up. They do make interesting reading, and often challenge the
narrative that's generally spouted.
If you think taking the knee is a worthwhile gesture, I respect
that. I just happen to feel differently. The world will still
turn, you think your way, I think mine. No harm done.
#Post#: 46881--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: Well Said, Ugo comments
DIR By: honkytonk
Date: August 14, 2020, 5:52 am
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I would be surprise to see see crowds kneel. Theres not the
space!!!
#Post#: 46883--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: Well Said, Ugo comments
DIR By: Spitfire
Date: August 14, 2020, 5:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
How do we know we can't change people's minds until we try? You
may rightly feel that you aren't racist and so this isn't about
you, that doesn't mean nobody should take their own stands
against racism, which is what's happening. If you don't want to
engage, that's fine too, but you seem to be very happy to be
very vocally against these actions if you aren't willing to
engage.
#Post#: 46884--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: Well Said, Ugo comments
DIR By: Quinky
Date: August 14, 2020, 6:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Spitfire link ---
>
> How do we know we can't change people's minds until we try?
You may rightly feel that you aren't racist and so this isn't
about you, that doesn't mean nobody should take their own stands
against racism, which is what's happening. If you don't want to
engage, that's fine too, but you seem to be very happy to be
very vocally against these actions if you aren't willing to
engage.
>
--- End Quote ---
That's why I've said repeatedly that I fully respect other
people's decisions to do what they feel is right for them.
#Post#: 46885--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: Well Said, Ugo comments
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: August 14, 2020, 6:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Cookie link ---
>
> I agree that it's a personal choice. But I'm not sure I see
where the problem lies. The reason it's so contentious is that
players take the knee during the national anthem. That's the bit
that's deemed disrespectful. It escalated last night where the
players were booed and had things thrown onto the pitch. The
irony there being the people complaining were actually booing
the anthem, which seems to go against exactly what they're
complaining about.
>
--- End Quote ---
The real irony is that Kaepernick was originally abused for
simply not standing for the anthem. A former Green Beret got in
touch with him to suggest that kneeling would be appropriate and
respectful, and he agreed to do it instead of staying seated.
And then people made out that kneeling was 'disrespecting the
flag'.
HTML https://www.npr.org/2018/09/09/646115651/the-veteran-and-nfl-player-who-advised-kaepernick-to-take-a-knee?t=1597403299613
#Post#: 46886--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: Well Said, Ugo comments
DIR By: Cookie
Date: August 14, 2020, 6:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> Maybe if people looked ahead instead of constantly trying to
rake up history, things would be calmer. Maybe if people just
focused on themselves and stopped trying to make others see
things their way, things would be calmer.
>
> Maybe you don't know the stats, so maybe you should look them
up. They do make interesting reading, and often challenge the
narrative that's generally spouted.
>
> If you think taking the knee is a worthwhile gesture, I
respect that. I just happen to feel differently. The world will
still turn, you think your way, I think mine. No harm done.
>
--- End Quote ---
How on earth can you expect people who have been suppressed to
just forget about it and move on? One of the things I am
learning is that I have enjoyed white privilege for all of my
life and I need to try and put myself in the shoes of others to
understand what they've been through and bring about change. The
people who have the best chance of bringing about change are
people like me, not asking black men and women to forget about
the injustice they've suffered for centuries.
And I have looked up the stats. The US is 76% white and yet only
41% of those killed by police were white. 13% of the US is black
and yet 22% of those killed are black. Do you think these
'challenge the narrative that's generally spouted' (odd phrase
to use, by the way)? Seems to me it proves it very clearly.
#Post#: 46887--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: Well Said, Ugo comments
DIR By: MadMax
Date: August 14, 2020, 6:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Fearless Fred link ---
>
> Aha, so now we know that SwindonQuin is actually Dominic Raab.
>
--- End Quote ---
Nah Dominic Raab would kneel for Boris too!
#Post#: 46888--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: Well Said, Ugo comments
DIR By: MadMax
Date: August 14, 2020, 6:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Spitfire link ---
>
> Agreed, just as it’s completely fine for anyone to choose not
to kneel for their own personal reasons, they also have a right
not to be victimised for doing so.
>
--- End Quote ---
Indeed. I recently read a quote from a member of the BAME
community who said she didn't agree with taking the knee because
for her it suggested subservience which is a fair point in my
opinion.
I agree with Anthony Watson who has said he wants players to do
whatever they want to do as a symbol of support, including
nothing. Forcing people into an empty gesture is pointless.
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