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#Post#: 44720--------------------------------------------------
Re: Academy intake
DIR By: poorfour
Date: June 23, 2020, 2:59 am
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We’re in the catchment area for London Irish (and also, sort of,
for Quins) and my son was in the DPP in the 2018-19 season. They
were very open about numbers and were keen to stress that at
most 1% of the kids who went into the process would end up
playing professionally. This was as much to manage the parents’
expectations as anything else.
Because of that LI work to the philosophy that they want to
improve their DPP players as rugby players and people, and leave
them in a position where they are still in love with the game
and want to play at amateur level.
Quins, from what I have heard, are more focused on producing a
player pipeline and, at least under the previous academy
leadership, were a lot more brutal about picking up and dropping
players. Someone put it to me as “Irish are interested in
producing the next generation of professional club players;
Quins are interested in producing potential internationals.”
#Post#: 44727--------------------------------------------------
Re: Academy intake
DIR By: Quinofthestoneage
Date: June 23, 2020, 4:21 am
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That's an interesting difference of philosophy. Your comments
certainly chime with my experience of Quins academy route as a
coach. I should say that my own son has never been anywhere near
the DPP/EPDG and probably won't ever be, but he loves rugby and
in many ways, this is the most important thing to me. I have
already seen, even at U15, boys being turned off the game by
their experiences in the DPP/EPDG, which is why I'm wary of it.
I'm conscious though, that other parents might have had
different experiences -perhaps hugely positive - of the Quins
academy set-up, and it would be good to hear their views too.
There are a probably a few posters on here who see it
differently; if so I'd love to know about that.
#Post#: 44745--------------------------------------------------
Re: Academy intake
DIR By: T-Bone
Date: June 23, 2020, 7:32 am
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It's a good point about a young player's chances depending to an
extent on what their pro clubs needs over the next 5 years. You
could have a year where there are loads of really talented
wingers but we are well stocked, so those guys don't get academy
contracts but some front row players do, for example. I'm sure
it's not that straightforward, but shows how hard it can be.
I think Ealing were advertising a uni course where they'd play
for Ealing as well. I guess that's a good route for those who
think they can make it but didn't get an academy contract.
Obviously that's much further down the line then a very keen
young player who wants to get into the pathway
#Post#: 44789--------------------------------------------------
Re: Academy intake
DIR By: fandg2
Date: June 24, 2020, 3:10 am
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Bit late on this thread so a few observations
FWIW, Conversely to Dombrant, Kieran Tredwell also went to John
Fisher but was picked up by the Academy and offered a contract.
Players develop differently at different ages. I'm pretty sure I
must have seen Dombrant play at Fisher but certainly wasn't a
stand out player then.
Certainly in the past, to be offered a contract from the academy
the club needed to feel you could make it at elite level AND
have a pathway through the club.
Having followed a relative of mine right the way through to a
contract, the only advice I would give to any youngsters is,
you've got to want to do it! And that basically means when it
blowing a gale and slashing down with rain, you don't think
twice about whether you want to go training after school on a
Monday night. If your son thinks "oh I'll give it a miss
tonight" or "do I have to go training?", he probably won't make
it as a pro.
"... they will have a scouting network that will visit school
and club games and highlight players they should take a closer
look at."
In the past this was Howard Graham and Jim Evans, are you saying
they've increased the size of the scouting network now?
#Post#: 44803--------------------------------------------------
Re: Academy intake
DIR By: Jedzi
Date: June 24, 2020, 5:15 am
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--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> As for football, I can only imagine that if a promising rugby
player thinks he has a shot at making at as even a mediocre
professional footballer, then the money will be a massive
attraction.
>
--- End Quote ---
We need to avoid the football approach at all costs - it is
based on a very wide triangle, with a huge number of children at
the base and almost no-one making it to the top. There's a
statistic that only something like 0.1% of boys in the football
academy system at 11 ever get to play a game in the Premier
League, let alone make a career of it. Meanwhile, some children
and parents pin their hopes on making untold riches as a
footballer.
A friend of mine is a teacher and teaches a child in the academy
at a premier league club. The boy puts in little effort in
class, as he doesn’t see why he needs to bother as, in his eyes,
he’s going to be a footballer. The parents are happy with that
too. The boy is 10 years old.
#Post#: 44808--------------------------------------------------
Re: Academy intake
DIR By: Quinofthestoneage
Date: June 24, 2020, 7:18 am
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I would just really want to echo Jedzi's points there. I was a
teacher in London state schools for twenty years, and I probably
taught over a hundred kids who were in football academies. As
far as I know, only one of them made it professionally (and that
was at Champ/Lge 1 level). The most important statistic that any
kid in a football academy, or their parents need to know is 11%,
which is the proportion of professional footballers who come
into contact with the criminal justice system when they finish
their careers - I'll fish out the source for this and post it,
but I originally heard it from the Community Officer of a
premier league club. This is why in all these discussions,
education is the most important aspect of player development
that that professional sport can emphasise with young people.
#Post#: 44832--------------------------------------------------
Re: Academy intake
DIR By: Hellequin
Date: June 24, 2020, 3:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
It is probably even more skewed away from rugby outside of the
home counties for state schools. My high school in Cheshire let
us play for one term in Y10 but decided it made too much of a
mess of the
football pitch. I was around 6ft and big boned the one sport I
seemed decent enough at compared to the others in my year was
rugby and it was binned after about 5 weeks. Basically if you
don't grow up in the right area or go to the right school you
have little chance of getting good enough.
I'm definitely not saying I would have been any good, I went to
uni in Wales and couldn't make the 3rd team, but I really
enjoyed those few weeks playing rugby and when I moved to London
loved being able to be involved, even if it was only from the
stands at the Stoop
#Post#: 44834--------------------------------------------------
Re: Academy intake
DIR By: Merrymaiden
Date: June 24, 2020, 6:07 pm
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Cadan Murley came through a state school in Salisbury I believe,
as did Mike Brown
#Post#: 44837--------------------------------------------------
Re: Academy intake
DIR By: Quinofthestoneage
Date: June 25, 2020, 2:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
They did, that is true, but in both cases the devil is in the
detail. Murley came from a military background where his dad was
heavily involved in Army rugby and Brown had strong support from
club rugby (Salisbury RFC and Melksham, I believe) and then went
to Peter Symonds College for 6th form which is one of the half a
dozen state run boarding schools in the country. Even, Brown
had a decision to make here - in a recent interview he
explained that he had been looking at the University route right
up until the club confirmed his senior academy contract. State
school boys can make it, there's no question; (I actually think
Quins doesnt do too badly on this front, all things considered)
but as several people have pointed out on here, there's usually
a combination of factors at work to help, like a strong club
background. Sinckler (Battersea Ironsides); Marler (Haywards
Heath) Dombrandt (Warlingham) - all these guys were state
school, but at some point they were in a club that was able to
point them in a certain direction and this helped their
progress. It would be much harder, in my opinion, for someone
outside Surrey/Sussex/London - where clubs are plentiful- from
state school with no club/family/forces background to progress
to the elite level.
#Post#: 44844--------------------------------------------------
Re: Academy intake
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: June 25, 2020, 3:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinofthestoneage link ---
>
> They did, that is true, but in both cases the devil is in the
detail. Murley came from a military background where his dad was
heavily involved in Army rugby and Brown had strong support from
club rugby (Salisbury RFC and Melksham, I believe) and then went
to Peter Symonds College for 6th form which is one of the half a
dozen state run boarding schools in the country. Even, Brown
had a decision to make here - in a recent interview he
explained that he had been looking at the University route right
up until the club confirmed his senior academy contract. State
school boys can make it, there's no question; (I actually think
Quins doesnt do too badly on this front, all things considered)
but as several people have pointed out on here, there's usually
a combination of factors at work to help, like a strong club
background. Sinckler (Battersea Ironsides); Marler (Haywards
Heath) Dombrandt (Warlingham) - all these guys were state
school, but at some point they were in a club that was able to
point them in a certain direction and this helped their
progress. It would be much harder, in my opinion, for someone
outside Surrey/Sussex/London - where clubs are plentiful- from
state school with no club/family/forces background to progress
to the elite level.
>
--- End Quote ---
Very strong Club Rugby scene in my neck of the woods too! South
West.
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