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#Post#: 44567--------------------------------------------------
Re: Swing Low is "racist"
DIR By: Blutakk
Date: June 19, 2020, 1:59 pm
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--- Quote from: Quinten Poulsen link ---
>
> There is that, plus just because someone finds offence in
something doesn't mean they're right on a particular issue, or
that their offence is at all rational.
>
--- End Quote ---
But that's why they've opened a can of worms - there is no right
and wrong and offence is emotional not rational.
#Post#: 44568--------------------------------------------------
Re: Swing Low is "racist"
DIR By: Quinten Poulsen
Date: June 19, 2020, 2:12 pm
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--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> And yet with all the research done people can only point to
the late 80s. I'll listen to the curator of the world rugby
museum on this, I think.
>
--- End Quote ---
What research was done? Was it any good?
#Post#: 44569--------------------------------------------------
Re: Swing Low is "racist"
DIR By: Blutakk
Date: June 19, 2020, 2:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quanks link ---
>
> This thread is a disaster. The RFU have stated:
>
> Nothing about a ban, in fact it expressly states that it
should be the fans' decision. The suggestion of a ban has come a
very obvious subset of the UK press to deliberately court the
ire of their readers without thinking about why the historical
context should be reviewed.
>
> If BAME people are saying that they are uncomfortable with the
singing of the song, of course there should be a review. See
Maggie Alphonsi's comments that it doesn't sit easy with her,
for example.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Totally agree. But the problem now is that there is a
presumption within the RFU statement that BAME people are
offended. If Maggie Alphonsi's experience is typical, then most
people, inside and outside the rugby community, were unaware of
the connotations. By turning this lack of knowledge into a
polarising 'sensitivity', the RFU have missed an opportunity to
use SLSC positively as a song sung with empathy to join
communities together. "We sing SLSC because we acknowledge the
wrongdoings of the past"
#Post#: 44570--------------------------------------------------
Re: Swing Low is "racist"
DIR By: Quinten Poulsen
Date: June 19, 2020, 2:20 pm
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"We sing SLSC because we acknowledge the wrongdoings of the
past"
Well I'm glad they haven't and won't do that!
#Post#: 44571--------------------------------------------------
Re: Swing Low is "racist"
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: June 19, 2020, 2:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinten Poulsen link ---
>
> What research was done? Was it any good?
>
--- End Quote ---
They talked to fans and looked at footage of matches. Edit: Not
to mention the players at the time, who all say it was something
new when they heard it that day.
There's a reason why basically everyone talks about Chris Oti
and Martin Offiah, and why loads and loads of people can happily
state that they sang/heard it sung in rugby clubs for years
before, but not at Twickenham.
#Post#: 44573--------------------------------------------------
Re: Swing Low is "racist"
DIR By: Bayernquin
Date: June 19, 2020, 4:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Rugby clubhouse postmatch songs were traditionally risqué, a few
beers with the lads and then either home to the little woman or
take her out for her Saturday night treat. Yes many songs were
racist, sexist and/or misogynistic, wrong, no doubt but at the
time we had: love thy neighbour, to death us do part (Alf
Garnett), mind your language and many similar comedy shows on
prime time TV with over 20 million viewers! Equal rights
legislation for sex, religion and race was in its infancy. The
easiest songs to learn and sing were mostly those with actions
as well as words, henceforth the popularity of SLSC, I really
think the sometimes childish but cathartic actions especially
COMING forth to... were the reason the song came (oh the irony!)
to be so well known and popular. My battered prop forward's
memory seems to remember either Slough or Gu & God leaving the
clubhouse on their knees singing High Ho! (please correct me if
wrong could have been any club in SW London area from Ironsides
to Devizes or Esso Fawley!, is this acceptable today? Here in
Bavaria we have a varied tradition due to the mixed backgrounds
of our Clubs, middle European rugby teams mostly are very multi
cultural but the.so called 3rd half is alive and kicking!
However singing is often a demonstration of nationality WITHIN
the rugby community and harmony or actiion based to facilitate
understanding and to bridge language difficulties. Players from
the 6 Nations are not allowed to sing the following, SWSC, FOS,
FOA, LOMF, LMar, etc because everyone knows them, new songs are
encouraged until late on the evening and then the classics ring
out. To paraphrase this slightly drunk lockdown emergance post,
should SLSC be banned, No. It bores me at 6N games as its almost
corporate now. Would I sing 4&20 Virgins anymore, no outdated!
Am I offended by either no. I can understand that.some are but
find 4&20 much more offensive than SLSC. Personally I will
continue to sing SLSC at away 6N matches to irk or drown
out(noisily) the home crowd, but not at Big Stoop as said above
its comes across as a corporate thing for me now. ( I also
dislike Tom Hark intensely)
#Post#: 44574--------------------------------------------------
Re: Swing Low is "racist"
DIR By: Domestos
Date: June 19, 2020, 4:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> And yet with all the research done people can only point to
the late 80s. I'll listen to the curator of the world rugby
museum on this, I think.
>
--- End Quote ---
Can you point me to a quote of what he said?
#Post#: 44576--------------------------------------------------
Re: Swing Low is "racist"
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: June 19, 2020, 5:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Domestos link ---
>
> Can you point me to a quote of what he said?
>
--- End Quote ---
Are you incapable of doing a bit of research? You clearly have
some facility with technology.
#Post#: 44577--------------------------------------------------
Re: Swing Low is "racist"
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: June 19, 2020, 5:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Will Carling also remembers it as the first time he heard it at
Twickenham.
You'd have thought one of those England players might have said
something by now if it was sung at HQ during England matches
before then.
#Post#: 44579--------------------------------------------------
Re: Swing Low is "racist"
DIR By: Quinten Poulsen
Date: June 19, 2020, 5:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
They might have said something if they'd heard it sung at
Twickenham, although they might not have. Perhaps Carling had a
more finely tuned ear than other former players, along with the
ability to catalogue all the songs sung in the crowd on any
given day.
Anyway, I suspect that both the museum curator and QK are
correct.
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