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#Post#: 42909--------------------------------------------------
Re: Debt for Equity swap?
DIR By: 10
Date: May 9, 2020, 4:47 am
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It would make sense to have a fan representative on the board,
ensuring that all decisions made are in the interests of the fan
base i.e. the people who pay most of their wages!
#Post#: 42910--------------------------------------------------
Re: Debt for Equity swap?
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: May 9, 2020, 5:25 am
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--- Quote from: 10 link ---
>
> It would make sense to have a fan representative on the board,
ensuring that all decisions made are in the interests of the fan
base i.e. the people who pay most of their wages!
>
--- End Quote ---
I think you'll find that fans don't pay most of their wages.
#Post#: 42911--------------------------------------------------
Re: Debt for Equity swap?
DIR By: Perdita
Date: May 9, 2020, 5:44 am
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Probably true, but the sponsorship would dry up instantly if
games were played behind closed doors - televised games without
fans would be about as interesting as watching football
#Post#: 42916--------------------------------------------------
Re: Debt for Equity swap?
DIR By: Jus-Quin-Time
Date: May 9, 2020, 1:11 pm
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I have difficulty understanding your thought process regarding
share ownership and representation as a supporter.
I am a shareholder in many companies, both large and small. My
shareholding does not bestow upon me a seat on the BoD and I do
not have representation there either. I must trust the BoD to
do the right thing. At the AGM I have a voice and a vote but
only in proportion to my holding. Unhappy shareholders can sell
out or form pressure groups and lobby for change.
So what you are suggesting is the latter. That a percentage of
Quins Plc is offered up for sale as a block. In return that
block is given an identity and receives voting rights and formal
representation through a single person on the BoD.
So now we are getting to the heart of it. Why would Quins
owners give up a part of the club into public ownership to
facilitate the arrival of a potential cuckoo in their nest?
What proportion of the club should be given up - 10%, 20%, 30%?
Who decides who the representative on the BoD should be and what
checks and balances would be in place to stop this from becoming
a Trojan Horse for a development company with eyes on the real
estate?
You are clearly enamoured with the idea of owning Quins shares.
Perhaps you can comment on the success or otherwise of this
approach with other clubs.
#Post#: 42917--------------------------------------------------
Re: Debt for Equity swap?
DIR By: Perdita
Date: May 9, 2020, 1:27 pm
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You are clearly thinking rationally and I see your argument and
assume that in three weeks you'll buy your season ticket for
next year with zero guarantee that it has any value. I'm not
suggesting anything clever like x% for £y and z votes, just that
if Quins Ltd want Quins Club to survive they could achieve a lot
of goodwill for little equity damage to make all season tickets
holders owners. Collectively we could help them shape the club,
and stop them scoring so many own goals.
#Post#: 42919--------------------------------------------------
Re: Debt for Equity swap?
DIR By: Yareet
Date: May 10, 2020, 2:23 am
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--- Quote from: Perdita link ---
>
> Probably true, but the sponsorship would dry up instantly if
games were played behind closed doors - televised games without
fans would be about as interesting as watching football
>
--- End Quote ---
Last I saw 20k people watched Korean football on the BBC website
this week.
There is an appetite for live televised sport in this country.
#Post#: 42920--------------------------------------------------
Re: Debt for Equity swap?
DIR By: Perdita
Date: May 10, 2020, 3:20 am
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"According to different sources, as of 2014 there were about
10,000 Koreans in New Malden proper, and as of the same year the
Korean population in the area around New Malden is around
20,000, including about 600 originating from North Korea, giving
it the largest group of North Koreans in Europe." - I wouldn't
draw too much conclusion from a b** streamed football match.
#Post#: 42923--------------------------------------------------
Re: Debt for Equity swap?
DIR By: SiB
Date: May 10, 2020, 3:44 am
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--- Quote from: Perdita link ---
>
> You are clearly thinking rationally and I see your argument
and assume that in three weeks you'll buy your season ticket for
next year with zero guarantee that it has any value. I'm not
suggesting anything clever like x% for £y and z votes, just that
if Quins Ltd want Quins Club to survive they could achieve a lot
of goodwill for little equity damage to make all season tickets
holders owners. Collectively we could help them shape the club,
and stop them scoring so many own goals.
>
--- End Quote ---
As for shaping the club, there used to be “ Fan forums” and
obviously there is Quinssa to give input , but at the end of the
day it’s a business, and people are put in place to make the
decisions, after all that’s what they are paid for
Have to agree with Jus-Quin-time, can’t see it working, whilst
it’s a nice idea in principle, after all the cost of the season
ticket isn’t worth a great deal of equity, and even if you own a
small amount you would only have your say at AGMs
#Post#: 42924--------------------------------------------------
Re: Debt for Equity swap?
DIR By: Jus-Quin-Time
Date: May 10, 2020, 4:05 am
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I refer you to my earlier question regarding evidence of
supporter ownership of rugby clubs. It is difficult to find
hard details.
I think Leicester Tigers did an equity swap very early in the
transition to becoming a professional club. Owners/members of
the original pre-professional club were given shares in the new
business. They have no formal supporter representation on the
BoD.
Northampton have shareholders but there is no specific supporter
representation on the BoD.
What these two clubs do have in common is that they publish
their annual accounts in plain sight on their club website. I
suspect this is a legal requirement, just like any other
business with shareholders.
Neither club seem to have formal shareholding supporter
representation on the BoD. Similarly having supporters as
shareholders does not seem to prevent the clubs making tenuous
decisions that have implications for performance on the pitch -
you refer to these as 'own goals'.
I have no difficulty with the concept of share ownership -
Manchester United and Tottenham both have big supporter
ownership - but it would be a very big step for the owners to
consider.
#Post#: 42929--------------------------------------------------
Re: Debt for Equity swap?
DIR By: Domestos
Date: May 10, 2020, 7:16 am
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Premiership rugby clubs are not commercially viable business
propositions.
With, I think, the one exception of Exeter all Premiership rugby
clubs lose money. They are only saved from going into
bankruptcy, or administration, or receivership by the generosity
of the benefactors that each club seems to have attached to it.
Harlequins have (sorry, forgotten his first name) Jillings and
Duncan Savile.
Quite why they give away 2 or 3 million pounds every year, I
don't know, but they do.
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