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#Post#: 42405--------------------------------------------------
Re: Social Distancing and Next Season
DIR By: Quinky
Date: April 29, 2020, 4:43 am
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--- Quote from: dr_miles link ---
>
> I think it's pretty fair to hold the government to account for
their failings, don't you agree?
>
--- End Quote ---
I think we live in a time when everyone knows their rights, but
very few are willing to accept their responsibilities.
#Post#: 42409--------------------------------------------------
Re: Social Distancing and Next Season
DIR By: never sleep
Date: April 29, 2020, 5:09 am
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--- Quote from: dr_miles link ---
>
> I think it's pretty fair to hold the government to account for
their failings, don't you agree?
>
--- End Quote ---
Thinking about this, I'm not sure that I do agree fully.
I think that you should really only do this if you have enough
information and knowledge to do so.
I am not an expert on the supply of PPE equipment to the NHS. I
do not know the typical stock levels, ordering process, lead
time, cross charging process, suppliers, supply chain, quality
controls, etc.
So, in this case, I don't think that I should be commenting on
this subject.
On the other hand, a website was set up to allowing booking of
Covid-19 tests. The website appeared to fail under high load.
This is a topic that I have far more understanding about. In
this case, I feel equipped to comment.
However, demanding answers from a high ranking government
official regarding the technical issue of network packets being
lost due to being blocked by a content management server is not
a productive activity. The systems guys that are setting these
things up quickly are doing their best. Mistakes will be made.
Allow them to get on with it. Do not force them to stop what
they are doing while they try to give a dumbed down answer about
why they did not foresee the issue with the website components
not working together.
This is an unprecedented situation. We should have patience,
understanding and empathy before we start casting stones.
#Post#: 42414--------------------------------------------------
Re: Social Distancing and Next Season
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: April 29, 2020, 6:27 am
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It really annoys me how commentators apply 20/20 hindsight all
the time. You can only make decisions based on the information
to hand AT THAT TIME.
#Post#: 42418--------------------------------------------------
Re: Social Distancing and Next Season
DIR By: dr_miles
Date: April 29, 2020, 6:51 am
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--- Quote from: deadlyfrom5yardsout link ---
>
> It really annoys me how commentators apply 20/20 hindsight all
the time. You can only make decisions based on the information
to hand AT THAT TIME.
>
--- End Quote ---
Based on this am I correct to say that if it turns out that they
did have information available at the time but ignored it then
you would be happy for them to be held to account?
#Post#: 42419--------------------------------------------------
Re: Social Distancing and Next Season
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: April 29, 2020, 6:52 am
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Depends why they ignored it.
#Post#: 42421--------------------------------------------------
Re: Social Distancing and Next Season
DIR By: never sleep
Date: April 29, 2020, 6:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: deadlyfrom5yardsout link ---
>
> Depends why they ignored it.
>
--- End Quote ---
Exactly this - you need ALL the info before you can judge.
We usually don't
#Post#: 42422--------------------------------------------------
Re: Social Distancing and Next Season
DIR By: dr_miles
Date: April 29, 2020, 6:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: never sleep link ---
>
> Thinking about this, I'm not sure that I do agree fully.
>
> I think that you should really only do this if you have enough
information and knowledge to do so.
>
> I am not an expert on the supply of PPE equipment to the NHS.
I do not know the typical stock levels, ordering process, lead
time, cross charging process, suppliers, supply chain, quality
controls, etc.
> So, in this case, I don't think that I should be commenting on
this subject.
>
> On the other hand, a website was set up to allowing booking of
Covid-19 tests. The website appeared to fail under high load.
This is a topic that I have far more understanding about. In
this case, I feel equipped to comment.
> However, demanding answers from a high ranking government
official regarding the technical issue of network packets being
lost due to being blocked by a content management server is not
a productive activity. The systems guys that are setting these
things up quickly are doing their best. Mistakes will be made.
Allow them to get on with it. Do not force them to stop what
they are doing while they try to give a dumbed down answer about
why they did not foresee the issue with the website components
not working together.
>
> This is an unprecedented situation. We should have patience,
understanding and empathy before we start casting stones.
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't think that the main thrust of the criticism of the
government is that their website fell over. It is that there are
30000-40000 people dead in this country. I am not saying that is
the fault of the government, but there are other countries where
the decisions and actions of other governments have led to much
lower rates of deaths compared to their overall populations. If
our government ignored advice or information that could have
reduced this number then it is reasonable to ask them to explain
why - not now, when they correctly have other priorities, but
once this critical period has passed.
#Post#: 42424--------------------------------------------------
Re: Social Distancing and Next Season
DIR By: never sleep
Date: April 29, 2020, 6:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
In another post I stated the issues with comparisons with other
countries.
Are apples better than oranges?
#Post#: 42425--------------------------------------------------
Re: Social Distancing and Next Season
DIR By: Fearless Fred
Date: April 29, 2020, 7:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Whilst the exact scale/nature of this pandemic would not have
been known before December, it's worth noting that in the UK
Government's Risk Register, updated every year, a pandemic has
been noted as one of the most likely risks the country faced and
one that has the highest impact on people. The last one to be
made public is accessible HERE
HTML https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/644968/UK_National_Risk_Register_2017.pdf.<br
/>The graph on page 9 is the simplified guide to possibility &
effect. This has not changed since the first one I can find for
2008.
There is also the matter of Operation Cygnus in 2016 which
according to the Telegraph (a paper that can pretty much be
classed as taking a pro-Conservative line) showed how
ill-prepared the country was. The Telegraph report is HERE
HTML https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/28/exercise-cygnus-uncovered-pandemic-warnings-buried-government/.
I think it is fair to say that the government were aware of the
risks of a pandemic, and as recently as 3 years before the
current situation started were aware of shortcomings in the
system due to the results of Operation Cygnus.
#Post#: 42428--------------------------------------------------
Re: Social Distancing and Next Season
DIR By: raedarius
Date: April 29, 2020, 7:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Fearless Fred link ---
>
> The ONS Data is available HERE
HTML https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending17april2020.<br
/>A statistician has plotted the data against historic Max, Min,
Mean figures. Spoiler alert: It does not look pretty
>
> [img
width=700]
HTML https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWrh9rAXgAEwyZ0?format=png&name=4096x4096[/img]
>
--- End Quote ---
While I accept that it will not make things much prettier, I do
wish that charts like this started their axes at zero.
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