URI:
   DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       ComeAllWithin (Harlequins Rugby)
  HTML https://comeallwithin.createaforum.com
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       *****************************************************
   DIR Return to: ComeAllWithin Board
       *****************************************************
       #Post#: 39107--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
   DIR By: Yareet
       Date: February 21, 2020, 4:09 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I’m trying to understand Jones’ logic and I’ve come up with
       this.
       The games in a post RWC 6 Nations are about the only time a
       coach gets to try wholesale experiments. If we’re in a World Cup
       final and JJ has to move to wing, how will he do? We can either
       find out on the day or in
       a largely meaningless game.
       He clearly sees Daly as a 15. With respect to Jones that got
       England to a World Cup final.
       He clearly sees Curry as an 8. Pocock moved there and nobody
       said a word. Curry is a very different 8 to Billy. Dombrandt
       would be a more similar replacement but I’m guessing Eddie wants
       to see (whether) England (can) play in a different way.
       Ps England beat Wales in Cardiff in 2017 with Lawes & Itoje
       switching between 5 & 6.
       #Post#: 39113--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
   DIR By: Quinky
       Date: February 21, 2020, 6:21 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Fursty link ---
       >
       >
       > I think he’s almost deliberately scuppering England at the
       moment, not because he wants to lose, of course he doesn’t, but
       because he wants to have something to build on.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Sometimes you need to pull something apart and rebuild it from
       scratch.
       #Post#: 39115--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
   DIR By: JammyGit
       Date: February 21, 2020, 6:29 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Then he should pull it apart - not go back to failed
       experiments...
       We'd all cut him some slack if he was trying something that had
       a future.
       #Post#: 39125--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
   DIR By: MadMax
       Date: February 22, 2020, 5:47 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I sometimes wonder if he is a bit bored and so amuses himself by
       trying to pick sides to try to both win and annoy the pundits
       equally.
       #Post#: 39129--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
   DIR By: Fish Quin
       Date: February 22, 2020, 6:13 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Yareet link ---
       >
       > I’m trying to understand Jones’ logic and I’ve come up with
       this.
       >
       > The games in a post RWC 6 Nations are about the only time a
       coach gets to try wholesale experiments. If we’re in a World Cup
       final and JJ has to move to wing, how will he do? We can either
       find out on the day or in
       > a largely meaningless game.
       >
       > He clearly sees Daly as a 15. With respect to Jones that got
       England to a World Cup final.
       >
       > He clearly sees Curry as an 8. Pocock moved there and nobody
       said a word. Curry is a very different 8 to Billy. Dombrandt
       would be a more similar replacement but I’m guessing Eddie wants
       to see (whether) England (can) play in a different way.
       >
       > Ps England beat Wales in Cardiff in 2017 with Lawes & Itoje
       switching between 5 & 6.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Nobody has a problem with Jones experimenting in ways that make
       sense. The team needs to evolve, fresh blood needs to be brought
       in. The problem is his experiments don’t make any sense.
       Take JJ for example. Given Jones’ preferred players, it’s likely
       the starting midfield when all fit and available would consist
       of 3 of Ford, Farrell, Tuilagi and Slade with the non-selected
       player on the bench. Which ever way you play that, you’ve got
       cover for 10/12/13 on the bench. It therefore makes sense that
       your other bench back will be a back 3 player, not a centre. So
       Joseph shouldn’t be in the 23, it should be a wing/fullback. If
       we had no good wingers/fullbacks in the country it may make
       sense to shoehorn a 13 onto the bench, but we have loads of top
       talent. So pick one of them! That’s where the experiment should
       be. Pick an uncapped winger!
       Similarly in the back row. Jones is adamant Lawes and Itoje can
       play 6. So you have two 7s starting with 2 second rows who can
       play 6 in your 23. That’s plenty of cover on the flanks,  but
       just one number 8 (and he is probably the least fit and most
       injury prone out of all of them!) It therefore makes sense to
       have your bench back row as someone who can cover 8. Not another
       6 or 7. If there were no good options for a second 8 I’m sure
       Curry, Itoje or even Genge could do a job there for us. But why
       do that when there are loads of form 8s available? Pick an 8,
       give them a run, that should be the experiment.
       I’m sure Jones will continue to get reasonable results despite
       his poor team selections. That’s because we have a load of class
       players. They are winning despite Jones’ incompetence. Yes, we
       can win a game with Lawes at 6, Daly at 15, Curry at 8. We could
       probably win a game with Ford at 9 and Youngs at 10, but that
       wouldn’t justify the selection.
       #Post#: 39130--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
   DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
       Date: February 22, 2020, 6:49 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       EJ seems to believe in the gameplan, tactics and strategy a lot
       more than picking the best players currently on form. Who is
       playing where seems not to be dictated by who the player is but
       what EJ wants the player to do.
       #Post#: 39133--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
   DIR By: Quinky
       Date: February 22, 2020, 7:02 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       And if England win this weekend, and look great in doing so,
       will all be forgiven?
       #Post#: 39134--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
   DIR By: Fish Quin
       Date: February 22, 2020, 7:05 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: deadlyfrom5yardsout link ---
       >
       > EJ seems to believe in the gameplan, tactics and strategy a
       lot more than picking the best players currently on form. Who is
       playing where seems not to be dictated by who the player is but
       what EJ wants the player to do.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Surely if that were true, he would look for a like for like
       replacement for Players when unavailable? His selections suggest
       the complete opposite to me - that he has no structure or
       consistency in game plan and is more interested in shoehorning
       in particular players who don’t suit the game plan but who he
       thinks are the best players.
       #Post#: 39251--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
   DIR By: Fish Quin
       Date: February 23, 2020, 11:13 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Quinky link ---
       >
       > And if England win this weekend, and look great in doing so,
       will all be forgiven?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       For me, no. Unless anyone now thinks Ewels could also be a top
       8?
       #Post#: 39253--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
   DIR By: JammyGit
       Date: February 23, 2020, 12:04 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Ireland were properly pants but it's a real worry that we ended
       up with no ball and no territory in that second half. The
       kicking game early on was magnificent and our defence is
       brilliant but we still lack creativity and we absolutely should
       have had a bonus point against an abject Ireland side that
       crumbled under early pressure.
       *****************************************************
       Page 3 of 5
   DIR Previous Page
   DIR Next Page