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#Post#: 39107--------------------------------------------------
Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
DIR By: Yareet
Date: February 21, 2020, 4:09 pm
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I’m trying to understand Jones’ logic and I’ve come up with
this.
The games in a post RWC 6 Nations are about the only time a
coach gets to try wholesale experiments. If we’re in a World Cup
final and JJ has to move to wing, how will he do? We can either
find out on the day or in
a largely meaningless game.
He clearly sees Daly as a 15. With respect to Jones that got
England to a World Cup final.
He clearly sees Curry as an 8. Pocock moved there and nobody
said a word. Curry is a very different 8 to Billy. Dombrandt
would be a more similar replacement but I’m guessing Eddie wants
to see (whether) England (can) play in a different way.
Ps England beat Wales in Cardiff in 2017 with Lawes & Itoje
switching between 5 & 6.
#Post#: 39113--------------------------------------------------
Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
DIR By: Quinky
Date: February 21, 2020, 6:21 pm
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--- Quote from: Fursty link ---
>
>
> I think he’s almost deliberately scuppering England at the
moment, not because he wants to lose, of course he doesn’t, but
because he wants to have something to build on.
>
--- End Quote ---
Sometimes you need to pull something apart and rebuild it from
scratch.
#Post#: 39115--------------------------------------------------
Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: February 21, 2020, 6:29 pm
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Then he should pull it apart - not go back to failed
experiments...
We'd all cut him some slack if he was trying something that had
a future.
#Post#: 39125--------------------------------------------------
Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
DIR By: MadMax
Date: February 22, 2020, 5:47 am
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I sometimes wonder if he is a bit bored and so amuses himself by
trying to pick sides to try to both win and annoy the pundits
equally.
#Post#: 39129--------------------------------------------------
Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
DIR By: Fish Quin
Date: February 22, 2020, 6:13 am
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--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> I’m trying to understand Jones’ logic and I’ve come up with
this.
>
> The games in a post RWC 6 Nations are about the only time a
coach gets to try wholesale experiments. If we’re in a World Cup
final and JJ has to move to wing, how will he do? We can either
find out on the day or in
> a largely meaningless game.
>
> He clearly sees Daly as a 15. With respect to Jones that got
England to a World Cup final.
>
> He clearly sees Curry as an 8. Pocock moved there and nobody
said a word. Curry is a very different 8 to Billy. Dombrandt
would be a more similar replacement but I’m guessing Eddie wants
to see (whether) England (can) play in a different way.
>
> Ps England beat Wales in Cardiff in 2017 with Lawes & Itoje
switching between 5 & 6.
>
--- End Quote ---
Nobody has a problem with Jones experimenting in ways that make
sense. The team needs to evolve, fresh blood needs to be brought
in. The problem is his experiments don’t make any sense.
Take JJ for example. Given Jones’ preferred players, it’s likely
the starting midfield when all fit and available would consist
of 3 of Ford, Farrell, Tuilagi and Slade with the non-selected
player on the bench. Which ever way you play that, you’ve got
cover for 10/12/13 on the bench. It therefore makes sense that
your other bench back will be a back 3 player, not a centre. So
Joseph shouldn’t be in the 23, it should be a wing/fullback. If
we had no good wingers/fullbacks in the country it may make
sense to shoehorn a 13 onto the bench, but we have loads of top
talent. So pick one of them! That’s where the experiment should
be. Pick an uncapped winger!
Similarly in the back row. Jones is adamant Lawes and Itoje can
play 6. So you have two 7s starting with 2 second rows who can
play 6 in your 23. That’s plenty of cover on the flanks, but
just one number 8 (and he is probably the least fit and most
injury prone out of all of them!) It therefore makes sense to
have your bench back row as someone who can cover 8. Not another
6 or 7. If there were no good options for a second 8 I’m sure
Curry, Itoje or even Genge could do a job there for us. But why
do that when there are loads of form 8s available? Pick an 8,
give them a run, that should be the experiment.
I’m sure Jones will continue to get reasonable results despite
his poor team selections. That’s because we have a load of class
players. They are winning despite Jones’ incompetence. Yes, we
can win a game with Lawes at 6, Daly at 15, Curry at 8. We could
probably win a game with Ford at 9 and Youngs at 10, but that
wouldn’t justify the selection.
#Post#: 39130--------------------------------------------------
Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: February 22, 2020, 6:49 am
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EJ seems to believe in the gameplan, tactics and strategy a lot
more than picking the best players currently on form. Who is
playing where seems not to be dictated by who the player is but
what EJ wants the player to do.
#Post#: 39133--------------------------------------------------
Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
DIR By: Quinky
Date: February 22, 2020, 7:02 am
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And if England win this weekend, and look great in doing so,
will all be forgiven?
#Post#: 39134--------------------------------------------------
Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
DIR By: Fish Quin
Date: February 22, 2020, 7:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: deadlyfrom5yardsout link ---
>
> EJ seems to believe in the gameplan, tactics and strategy a
lot more than picking the best players currently on form. Who is
playing where seems not to be dictated by who the player is but
what EJ wants the player to do.
>
--- End Quote ---
Surely if that were true, he would look for a like for like
replacement for Players when unavailable? His selections suggest
the complete opposite to me - that he has no structure or
consistency in game plan and is more interested in shoehorning
in particular players who don’t suit the game plan but who he
thinks are the best players.
#Post#: 39251--------------------------------------------------
Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
DIR By: Fish Quin
Date: February 23, 2020, 11:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> And if England win this weekend, and look great in doing so,
will all be forgiven?
>
--- End Quote ---
For me, no. Unless anyone now thinks Ewels could also be a top
8?
#Post#: 39253--------------------------------------------------
Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: February 23, 2020, 12:04 pm
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Ireland were properly pants but it's a real worry that we ended
up with no ball and no territory in that second half. The
kicking game early on was magnificent and our defence is
brilliant but we still lack creativity and we absolutely should
have had a bonus point against an abject Ireland side that
crumbled under early pressure.
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