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#Post#: 38023--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T Things looking worse for saracens financially
DIR By: Boonie
Date: February 5, 2020, 9:51 am
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As has been said, Richmond, London Scottish, and more recently
London Welsh have all been there - in their case it was a bit
more about financial difficulties than outright financial
mismanagement. There's a parallel in football too, if you look
at Rangers in Scotland. Not a pleasant prospect for anyone, but
if the money dries up completely and they have no option, then
that may be the only path.
#Post#: 38083--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T Things looking worse for saracens financially
DIR By: poorfour
Date: February 6, 2020, 6:32 am
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There's a nuance here that hasn't been discussed.
Rugby clubs are not financially viable as professional sports
teams when they start out. As Mark Evans used to point out, they
need to be able to regularly fill a 15k stadium (if they own it)
or more (if they're renting). But you can't get there overnight.
Doing that needs serious long term backing, and every club that
has got there with the exception of Exeter (who were lucky to be
able to trade their old ground for a lot of money and Sandy
Park) and possibly Leicester has done it with the backing of a
union or a wealthy backer.
Nigel Wray's willingness to put his personal fortune behind
turning Saracens into a viable club is something we should
applaud unreservedly. It would be bad for rugby to lose either
Saracens or the backing they need to become a sustainable
business. Rugby has few enough potentially viable clubs that we
really can't afford to lose one.
The difficult bit is that we have to separate that from where
Wray overstepped the mark by systematically breaching an
agreement he made with his fellow club chairmen - all of them
representing people who continue to pour money into rugby to
make it sustainable.
Essentially he was trying to shortcut the process by making
Saracens more successful, and therefore able to attract more
fans and afford to build out [Insert Sponsor Name Here] Park.
It's the process that Quins have been through over the last 20
years, but we did it within the rules.
By doing that, he was effectively robbing the other clubs of
support that they might have had, their chairmen of revenue they
might have earned and the players and fans of trophies they
might have won.
I think it's both possible and appropriate to laud him for
wanting to back a club, while disapproving hugely of how he has
overstepped the mark.
#Post#: 38087--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T Things looking worse for saracens financially
DIR By: harlequins
Date: February 6, 2020, 7:24 am
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Wray went far too far. He then made it worse by not apologising
and basically saying what he did was correct.
#Post#: 38089--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T Things looking worse for saracens financially
DIR By: poorfour
Date: February 6, 2020, 7:44 am
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--- Quote from: harlequins link ---
>
> Wray went far too far. He then made it worse by not
apologising and basically saying what he did was correct.
>
--- End Quote ---
The parallels with Deano are quite striking in that regard.
#Post#: 38102--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T Things looking worse for saracens financially
DIR By: Quinky
Date: February 6, 2020, 10:02 am
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--- Quote from: DOK link ---
>
> I wouldn't want to see the end of Saracens, but they're living
in a financial cloud cuckoo land. There is no way a stadium that
only accomodates 10,000 people is going to make a team
financially viable. Then to be spending all that money on
players, all that extra money on unapproved reward schemes.
They've been averaging clouds of less than 8,000 while paying
out top whack. That's simply not sustainable without Nigel
Wray's financial support. I would hope he's going to see them
through the championship season, bring them back and then find a
buyer but between fines, trying to pay a premiership team in a
championship year and other associated costs - this is going to
be very expensive.
>
--- End Quote ---
They do hire out the stadium and event space too, and it's very
popular. It's also very good quality and good value for money.
#Post#: 38104--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T Things looking worse for saracens financially
DIR By: markymark
Date: February 6, 2020, 12:56 pm
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Please excuse my ignorance but how does sponsorship of players
work with regards to salary caps? Are players allowed to be
sponsored? Does it count along with the cap etc?
Been wondering for a while. I'm sure I saw a Sarries/Quins game
at Wembley where the players were announced onto the pitch
followed by a sponsored by "whoevers cars" eg. Made me wonder
how that all fits in. Thanks for any insight.
#Post#: 38105--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T Things looking worse for saracens financially
DIR By: DazzaS
Date: February 6, 2020, 1:48 pm
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I remember Quins used to do that. I'm not sure if they still do
though
#Post#: 38108--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T Things looking worse for saracens financially
DIR By: Yareet
Date: February 6, 2020, 2:04 pm
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--- Quote from: markymark link ---
>
> Please excuse my ignorance but how does sponsorship of players
work with regards to salary caps? Are players allowed to be
sponsored? Does it count along with the cap etc?
> Been wondering for a while. I'm sure I saw a Sarries/Quins
game at Wembley where the players were announced onto the pitch
followed by a sponsored by "whoevers cars" eg. Made me wonder
how that all fits in. Thanks for any insight.
>
--- End Quote ---
Maybe. Have a look at page 41
HTML https://d2cx26qpfwuhvu.cloudfront.net/premier/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/03161651/Salary-Cap-Regulations-2018-19.pdf
#Post#: 38109--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T Things looking worse for saracens financially
DIR By: markymark
Date: February 6, 2020, 2:20 pm
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Thanks :-)
Wish I was a lawyer, but at least there are rules around it.
Clears a lot up.
#Post#: 38118--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T Things looking worse for saracens financially
DIR By: Quinky
Date: February 7, 2020, 3:21 am
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--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> Maybe. Have a look at page 41
>
>
HTML https://d2cx26qpfwuhvu.cloudfront.net/premier/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/03161651/Salary-Cap-Regulations-2018-19.pdf
>
--- End Quote ---
It does mention that a sponsor of the club is a connected party.
It doesn't cover direct sponsors of the player. I suspect Mr
Wray thought this was a loophole with regard to Maro, for
example.
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