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#Post#: 37883--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - Should there be relegation from the 6 nations?
DIR By: T-Bone
Date: February 4, 2020, 4:33 am
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--- Quote from: A222Quin link ---
>
> Georgia would come in and be stuffed in the same way Italy
have been. I suppose they may as well give them a go but I
don’t see it ending any differently.
>
> Slightly off beam rant here but I find myself caring much less
about the 6 nations these days. Italy were mindless yesterday,
same old same old. France have a performance in them, let’s
see if they can keep it up. Scotland lose more than they win but
their game against England. BBC coverage is staler than a 2 week
old loaf covered in mould. The sheer bias from all Celtic
pundits except Paul O Connell. England’s performances
analysed 5x everyone else’s. The fixtures - mix them up
FFS. Yes, it’ll take a year to correct but it’s
tedious to have the same set up year after year after year.
>
--- End Quote ---
In terms of the fixtures, how long is the current pattern set?
How long does a cycle have to be to work out fairly? Obviously
the relative strengths of the teams changes, but the way the
fixtures fall can have a huge impact on the eventual standings.
For example, it would arguably be better to have fewer home
games but to play those two home games against two of Wales,
Ireland and France, than to have three home games against Italy,
Scotland and one other but then have to play two of Wales,
Ireland and France away. There needs to be a fair rotation not
only of home and away but also of who those games are against.
I'm not sure how it works at the moment
#Post#: 37885--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - Should there be relegation from the 6 nations?
DIR By: DazzaS
Date: February 4, 2020, 4:43 am
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I do agree with the option of promotion and relegation, if the
countries in the European League see a chance of them getting to
the top table, it could be a catalyst to improve, facilities,
playign abilities etc. I do think countries such as Georgia
deserve a chance. However Ic annot see the executives, the
sponsors etc swapping Rome for Tbilisi.
#Post#: 37888--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - Should there be relegation from the 6 nations?
DIR By: A222Quin
Date: February 4, 2020, 4:45 am
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--- Quote from: T-Bone link ---
>
> In terms of the fixtures, how long is the current pattern set?
How long does a cycle have to be to work out fairly? Obviously
the relative strengths of the teams changes, but the way the
fixtures fall can have a huge impact on the eventual standings.
For example, it would arguably be better to have fewer home
games but to play those two home games against two of Wales,
Ireland and France, than to have three home games against Italy,
Scotland and one other but then have to play two of Wales,
Ireland and France away. There needs to be a fair rotation not
only of home and away but also of who those games are against.
I'm not sure how it works at the moment
>
--- End Quote ---
The current profile appears to be fixed ad infinitum. It hasn't
changed since the 5 became 6 back in 2000!
#Post#: 37894--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - Should there be relegation from the 6 nations?
DIR By: Fearless Fred
Date: February 4, 2020, 5:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: T-Bone link ---
>
> In terms of the fixtures, how long is the current pattern set?
How long does a cycle have to be to work out fairly? Obviously
the relative strengths of the teams changes, but the way the
fixtures fall can have a huge impact on the eventual standings.
For example, it would arguably be better to have fewer home
games but to play those two home games against two of Wales,
Ireland and France, than to have three home games against Italy,
Scotland and one other but then have to play two of Wales,
Ireland and France away. There needs to be a fair rotation not
only of home and away but also of who those games are against.
I'm not sure how it works at the moment
>
--- End Quote ---
That's basically how we have the fixtures now. England play
Wales & Ireland at home, all others away one year, and the
reverse in the following year. I guess it's possible to shake it
up a bit, but all the unions would not want to find that they
have only two home games in two consecutive years, purely from a
financial standpoint.
As for promotion & relegation, I doubt that will happen, again
for financial reasons. Yes, Italy are the usual relegation
suspects but Wales, Scotland and France have all finished 6th in
the past 20 years. None of them want to risk having a dire year
& ending up being relegated. Plus it has been mooted that the
promoted team should be promoted for *two* years, so that they
can have a chance to have home & away fixtures against all the
other teams (again for financial reasons) and the European
Championship countries will no doubt also all want a chance to
host the relegated team at home so will also push for a two year
cycle.
#Post#: 37900--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - Should there be relegation from the 6 nations?
DIR By: Bolly-Quin
Date: February 4, 2020, 8:20 am
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There's quite a big difference between Italy and Georgia rugby -
the former has ~ 80,000 players in ~ 1000 clubs where as Georgia
has ~ 20,000 players in ~ 200 clubs (figures rounded up)
however, Italy (12) are only 1 place above Georgia (13) in the
IRB table.
Georgia play in the Rugby Europe Championship with Spain (16)
Romania (19). These are followed by Russia (20), Belgium (27)
and Germany (28). This will be the 4th year of the Championship,
which has been won for the last 3 years (i.e. every year it has
been played) by Georgia. So if there is a club to be promoted,
it should be Georgia. Here are the results and standings from
last year:-
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Rugby_Europe_Championship
I find it hard to foresee any other result than a flip between
promoted/relegated club each year, with Italy and Georgia
swapping every year (or two years, as FF says): how much good
will this do? Unless either country can considerably increase
interest and participation, it would be hard to see how they can
improve to a point that they would stay "up" every year.
Watching Italian sides play Quins over the years in European
rugby, they are getting better - Treviso finished 3rd last year
and neither team sit at the bottom of the league tables this
year (albeit by one place) but nationally, they have had a poor
run of form for the last 6 or 7 years. But I would argue that
since 2015 (when no European teams reached SF stage in England
RWC), Ireland (several wins against ABs), England (SF win
against AB, plus domination of Australia, if not SA) and Wales
have all improved a fair deal and winning against mercurial
France and Scotland not easy for Italy.
I'd suggest that Italy should stay in 6N (unless Georgia really
do push on and overtake them for several years in the IRB table)
and that the Rugby Europe Championship be given more prominence
- TV viewing here would be a good start - and that Tier 1 "A"
tours to those European Tier 2 should increase.
Keen Brexiteers among us might prefer that England unilaterally
withdraw from the 6N and join a new league based in Florida with
US, Canada and Mexico, just to show we can still win something,
if not a good trade deal. ;)
#Post#: 37952--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - Should there be relegation from the 6 nations?
DIR By: Domestos
Date: February 4, 2020, 4:16 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: T-Bone link ---
>
> In terms of the fixtures, how long is the current pattern set?
How long does a cycle have to be to work out fairly? Obviously
the relative strengths of the teams changes, but the way the
fixtures fall can have a huge impact on the eventual standings.
For example, it would arguably be better to have fewer home
games but to play those two home games against two of Wales,
Ireland and France, than to have three home games against Italy,
Scotland and one other but then have to play two of Wales,
Ireland and France away. There needs to be a fair rotation not
only of home and away but also of who those games are against.
I'm not sure how it works at the moment
>
--- End Quote ---
Why would it be better to have fewer home games? It is home
games where the money is made for all of the six nations.
England play colours (Wales and Ireland) at home one year with
blues (Scotland, France and Italy) away that year. The following
year the home and away fixtures are reversed.
Wales play the same principle, but the other way round.
I don't see how you could devise a simpler or fairer system.
#Post#: 37964--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - Should there be relegation from the 6 nations?
DIR By: Fearless Fred
Date: February 5, 2020, 12:10 am
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As an aside, in case any of you were unaware, there is a little
trick to tell if a 6 Nations game is going to be on BBC or ITV.
If the home team starts with a consonant (France, Scotland,
Wales) the game will be on the BBC (Also starts with a
consonant). If he home team starts with a vowel (England, Italy,
Ireland) the game is on ITV (also starts with a vowel).
#Post#: 37966--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - Should there be relegation from the 6 nations?
DIR By: Mayor West
Date: February 5, 2020, 2:24 am
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I’m trying to remember whether we get Italy at home as a first
game. This is an advantage as any team that does, like Wales,
eases themselves in with usually 5 points.
#Post#: 37967--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - Should there be relegation from the 6 nations?
DIR By: BelgianQuin
Date: February 5, 2020, 2:25 am
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The team that finishes 1st in the 2nd tier 6N competition must -
in my opinion - play a game against the team that finishes last
in the 1st tier 6N.
Winner must be promoted to the 1st tier competition if it's the
2nd tier nation and must stay there for 2 years (home and away
games). Loser relegates.
This is the case for the last team in the 2nd tier competition,
who's playing a one off game against the winner of the 3rd tier
competition.
For years now, I see Georgia playing here in Belgium and they
deserve a chance to play at the highest stage. They stand out
against teams like Romania, Russia, Spain, Portugal and Belgium
which is frustrating for these teams as it is frustrating for
themselves...
I'm sure to say, that Georgia will do much better than Italy and
deserve a chance to compete against Italy.
I'm afraid, that not only sportive values are counting...
To be honest, Tbilisi isn't the sexiest city to play rugby in
winter compared to Rome...as it is for visiting fans!
#Post#: 37969--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T - Should there be relegation from the 6 nations?
DIR By: A222Quin
Date: February 5, 2020, 2:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Mayor West link ---
>
> I’m trying to remember whether we get Italy at home as a first
game. This is an advantage as any team that does, like Wales,
eases themselves in with usually 5 points.
>
--- End Quote ---
Being a complete nause I looked this up:
Scotland have had Italy first up on 2 occasions
England on 3
Wales on 4
France on 5
Ireland on 7
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