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#Post#: 36635--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs assisted in investigation
DIR By: InsertQuinsPunHere
Date: January 22, 2020, 7:47 am
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--- Quote from: Which Tyler link ---
>
> I knew what my gut was telling me about the strength of
Sarries’ squad compared to other clubs - especially the 9 who
are supposed to be spending around the cap limit. On Sunday I
was desperate enough to avoid the big bang theory, that I
decided to do something about it - I got the squad lists for all
12 clubs, and split the squads into categories...
>
> snip
>
--- End Quote ---
Good stuff... Do you still have the spreadsheet/database?
Perhaps you could do a "number of international caps" by squad
too? I reckon a 9 cap scrummy (Willi Heinz) would be "worth"
less than an 84 capped scrummy (Danny Care). Perhaps this metric
would balance that out a bit?
#Post#: 36652--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs assisted in investigation
DIR By: never sleep
Date: January 22, 2020, 8:47 am
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I started thinking something like:
Cap for Lions = 12pts
Cap for tier 1 nation = 10pts
Cap for other nations = 3pts
Then you multiple this by a factor for the number of caps
10 or fewer X .5
11 to 30 x 1
31 or more x 1.5
This gets round people who have appeared on the bench for one
game or gone on a summer tour which coincides with the Lions
etc.
#Post#: 36653--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs assisted in investigation
DIR By: MadMax
Date: January 22, 2020, 8:49 am
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--- Quote from: Bucksquin link ---
>
> I recall that Dean Richards was banned for three years from
having any involvement in the game, for bringing it into
disrepute. Surely at least Nigel Wray is guilty (if not other
individuals, too) of exactly the same thing, and even more so
than Deano, given the negative PR impact of the Sarries scandal
on rugby's reputation.
>
--- End Quote ---
Absolutely correct. The attachment below (taken from a thread on
another site and apologies I can't credit the original poster as
I didn't bookmark the thread) shows information provided by the
Cheats on their own website when the news of their cheating
first broke. You will see that they themselves say that the
responsibility for keeping within the cap belongs to the CEO and
the coaching staff.
So the Cheats themselves say that McCall and his coaches are
equally culpable.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 36657--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs assisted in investigation
DIR By: Boonie
Date: January 22, 2020, 8:55 am
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The tax implications are very interesting. Either there was full
disclosure to the taxman of overseas earnings, earnings from
property etc., in which case there will be records of everything
in the Sarries books somewhere, or they were hidden, which
implies that this saga has a lot longer to run, and will be ever
more painful. Death and taxes...
#Post#: 36690--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs assisted in investigation
DIR By: TeflonTed
Date: January 22, 2020, 10:39 am
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Sarries have now reportedly withdrawn their objection to
publication
HTML https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51209973
#Post#: 36695--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs assisted in investigation
DIR By: poorfour
Date: January 22, 2020, 11:11 am
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Dippy was pretty clear over post-Quinssa dinner drinks that it
stretches back at least as far as 2011-12.
Should Wray cop a ban? Arguably, but the difference here is that
what he's breached is essentially an agreement between clubs
rather than something governed by a union or World Rugby. And as
long as Stephen Jones is still proclaiming his innocence, can he
really be said to have brought the game into disrepute?
#Post#: 36700--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs assisted in investigation
DIR By: quins4life
Date: January 22, 2020, 11:46 am
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Let’s not forget our most successful DoR in our history left
because he felt like it was an unfair playing field. Also lost a
few over the years to them directly, as well as difficult
keeping some indirectly as wages have been inflated. Also a
competing London club, why would a player, or even a brand
commercially, join Quins when there is such a successful London
club relatively nearby. Not too forget the potential other
trophies we could have won in the first half of the decade when
we were one of the top teams in England and arguably in Europe
too. When you list out the reasons, you can see why we would be
throughly fed up
#Post#: 36721--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs assisted in investigation
DIR By: AJQuin
Date: January 22, 2020, 4:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Which Tyler link ---
>
> I knew what my gut was telling me about the strength of
Sarries’ squad compared to other clubs - especially the 9 who
are supposed to be spending around the cap limit. On Sunday I
was desperate enough to avoid the big bang theory, that I
decided to do something about it - I got the squad lists for all
12 clubs, and split the squads into categories – Marquee Class
(Lions or equivalent standard from overseas - which does
introduce bias), International Class (anyone else capped) and
Uncapped players. This keeps my bias out of it as much as
possible,, and seems a reasonable guide to wage categories at
clubs (I’d have liked further divisions, but they’d have
increased bias). I just wanted to see what stood out - for
Sarries or anyone else. I don't expect it to tell the whole
story.
>
> Marquee Class (top 2 above):
> 11 Saracens
> 5 Bath
> 5 L.Irish
> 5 Leicester
> 4 Northampton
> 3 Exeter
> 2.78 Average of 9
> 2 Bristol
> 2 Harlequins
> 2 Sale
> 1 Gloucester
> 1 Wasps
> 1 Worcester
> Sarries have as many Marquee players as the next 2 clubs
combined
>
> Capped International (established or otherwise)
> 19 Gloucester
> 19 Harlequins
> 18 Exeter
> 17 Sale
> 16 Leicester
> 15.55 Average of 9
> 15 Wasps
> 14 L.Irish
> 14 Saracens
> 12 Bath
> 12 Bristol
> 12 Northampton
> 9 Worcester
> And they don't lose out in terms of capped depth
>
> Uncapped Players
> 35 Worcester
> 33 Bristol
> 32 Bath
> 31 Northampton
> 30 Exeter
> 28 Wasps
> 27 Leicester
> 27 L Irish
> 26.67 Average of 9
> 24 Harlequins
> 20 Gloucester
> 16 Saracens
> 15 Sale
> They just make up for it by having fewer uncapped players.
>
> There's only one club that leaps out (to me) of the data as
being different to the others
>
--- End Quote ---
Worcester stand out to me. Bottom of the pile throughout.
Probably why I have a soft spot for them and credit to them for
staying in the prem on that basis.
#Post#: 36723--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs assisted in investigation
DIR By: Robertquin
Date: January 22, 2020, 5:34 pm
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If we dobbed them in, good for us.
#Post#: 36786--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs assisted in investigation
DIR By: TeddingtonQuin
Date: January 23, 2020, 5:51 am
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--- Quote from: quins4life link ---
>
> Let’s not forget our most successful DoR in our history left
because he felt like it was an unfair playing field. Also lost a
few over the years to them directly, as well as difficult
keeping some indirectly as wages have been inflated. Also a
competing London club, why would a player, or even a brand
commercially, join Quins when there is such a successful London
club relatively nearby. Not too forget the potential other
trophies we could have won in the first half of the decade when
we were one of the top teams in England and arguably in Europe
too. When you list out the reasons, you can see why we would be
throughly fed up
>
--- End Quote ---
Agree with all you've said there apart from the section I've
highlighted. Was he, really?? I used to think so too but have
come round to the idea that no, I don't think he was. OK, he
presided over our most successful period in the 1st half of his
time with us. Was that his doing or was he riding the crest of
the wave created by the good work of Mark Evans and Deano and
got lucky? The 2nd half of his time in charge was a slow decline
that continued through the JK reign, took a blip last season but
is looking downward again this one (last Saturday's game apart)
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