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#Post#: 36577--------------------------------------------------
Clubs assisted in investigation
DIR By: Monte
Date: January 22, 2020, 3:24 am
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According to Owen Slot in Times this morning Clubs did their own
investigations and last autumn Quins apparently the Times have
been told ‘Harlequins handed over a huge dossier’ by doing
research through Companies House to unearth information about a
network of co-investments Nigel Wray made with players’.
Apparently we found an SA farm
Amongst other things.
Explains why Robshaw and Care led the way. Might also explain
why 4 Directors the Year previously as maybe disagreement over
the policy of Charles Jillings to dig. Might make the match on
Sunday even more interesting hope Robshaw is back!
#Post#: 36578--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs assisted in investigation
DIR By: harlequins
Date: January 22, 2020, 3:29 am
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I read the same this morning. It looks like Saracens were even
worse than we thought - if that is possible! Of course Wray did
not know what he was doing.....pigs fly....
#Post#: 36580--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs assisted in investigation
DIR By: Monte
Date: January 22, 2020, 3:40 am
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Interesting that the agents were cut out of the deal and it was
they who talked to the other Clubs. Fury over Jim Hamilton going
there was clearly a catalyst before Daly. A step too far. I have
always said you cannot track investments in SA and the Pacific
Islands, but if they are in property of course you can.
#Post#: 36583--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs assisted in investigation
DIR By: gbrangers24
Date: January 22, 2020, 3:59 am
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Can someone please copy and paste as it's behind a paywall?
#Post#: 36589--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs assisted in investigation
DIR By: Nico Wilson
Date: January 22, 2020, 4:34 am
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Rivals’ dossier aided Saracens fall
Rival clubs were feeding information to Premier Rugby about
Saracens’ suspected breaches of the salary cap, helping to put
in place the investigation that resulted in the English and
European champions being relegated.
Harlequins were one of the clubs that did their own
investigations and compiled what The Times has been told was a
“huge dossier”. The information was then passed on to Andrew
Rogers, the Premier Rugby (PRL) salary cap manager.
The south west London club were working on their dossier towards
the end of 2018, which is when PRL began its investigation.
Harlequins started searching for information through Companies
House, unearthing information about the network of
co-investments that Nigel Wray, the then Saracens chairman and
owner, had entered into with some of his players.
Harlequins also shared details about alleged property ownership
in north London and the St Albans area and about farm ownership
in South Africa.
Other clubs were also passing information to Rogers, The Times
understands. It was felt that his one-man department was
understaffed and could do with all the help he could get.
One of the deals that PRL was advised to investigate was the
move by Jim Hamilton, the Scotland lock, from Montpellier to
Saracens in 2014. Hamilton chose to go to Saracens despite the
interest of other English clubs.
Some of the information that the clubs passed to PRL came
second-hand through player agents. At the time, Saracens had a
history of cutting agents out of their players’ contract deals,
which enraged the agents, who were then happy to pass on their
own knowledge of how Saracens were doing their business.
The investigation by PRL finally came to fruition in the ruling
last November that Saracens had breached the cap in three
successive seasons. They were initially fined £5.36 million and
docked 35 points. When it became clear last week that they were
set to break the salary cap again this season, they accepted
automatic relegation.
Throughout the process, Saracens have worked to keep information
of the illegal deals exposed by the PRL investigation out of the
public eye.
Many people at PRL want to publish the judgment, but that would
require the approval of all the clubs and Darren Childs, the PRL
chief executive, said yesterday that Saracens had gone out of
their way to prevent it happening.
Two months ago, Mark McCall, the Saracens director of rugby,
said that he would like the judgment to be published. However,
that is clearly not the official position of the club.
“I would be very keen to look at a more open approach,” Childs
said. “But just so we are really clear, there is a specific
action by Saracens to tell us not to release. We do not have
their consent to release that document and we have that in
writing from them.”
Childs also said yesterday that in the unlikely event that
Saracens overcome their 35-point deduction to finish in fourth —
they are 29 points behind fourth-placed Sale with 14 games to go
— they would not be allowed to compete in the play-offs.
“The current thinking is that if they hit top four, they won’t
be participating in the play-offs,” Childs said. “The
fifth-placed club will take part instead. We are still working
through the final details. This is a club that for four years in
a row has failed to demonstrate its compliance with the league’s
regulations.”
Childs said that the review into PRL’s governance aimed to “make
sure nothing like this can ever happen again.” He said: “The
only outcome I want to make sure of is [that] we are never in
this situation again.”
England rules to be decided
There is no decision yet on whether Saracens players could keep
playing for England if they move to a foreign club on loan next
season.
The RFU has an agreement that all England players must play for
an English club, barring “exceptional circumstances”. “Anything
to do with exemptions and exceptional circumstances is a bit
hypothetical at this stage,” Bill Sweeney, the RFU chief
executive, said. “The first time we need to consider things like
that are the autumn internationals.”
Harlequins v Saracens
Gallagher Premiership, Sunday, 3pm
BT Sport 2
#Post#: 36593--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs assisted in investigation
DIR By: harlequins
Date: January 22, 2020, 4:40 am
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Saracens really did all they could, by the looks of it, to keep
their dodgy dealings secret by cutting out agents. If there were
overseas dodgy payments then I really do think the taxman should
have a look. If Wray is behind tax related issues then perhaps a
review should be undertaken.
#Post#: 36606--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs assisted in investigation
DIR By: SiB
Date: January 22, 2020, 5:50 am
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I like the suggestion elswhere that this is being done now and
focusing on Quins as the press really want a big reaction on
Sunday,
Personally I like the suggestion of letting silence greet them
and we just get behind our team
#Post#: 36607--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs assisted in investigation
DIR By: honkytonk
Date: January 22, 2020, 5:56 am
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A tweet from Alex Shaw...
"There are definitely two (and maybe a third) Prem clubs who
should be sweating Quins haven’t prepared a dossier on them,
too. In the rush to persecute Saracens, some things are being
missed/overlooked. I can’t write it for a conflict of
interests...but it’s there. Dig..."
#Post#: 36609--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs assisted in investigation
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: January 22, 2020, 5:59 am
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Apparently we should be taking Alex Shaw's tweets with a large
dollop of salt, he's a bit of a twitter loudmouth who doesn't
back it up.
#Post#: 36613--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs assisted in investigation
DIR By: N.G.A.
Date: January 22, 2020, 6:10 am
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As this continues it becomes more obvious that Wray and others
in the senior management at Saracens have systematically cheated
for a good period of time and are still intent on covering their
tracks.
Saracens as a whole are being punished but I think there are
individuals who, due to dishonest behaviour, should receive bans
from involvement in the game.
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