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       #Post#: 36577--------------------------------------------------
       Clubs assisted in investigation
   DIR By: Monte
       Date: January 22, 2020, 3:24 am
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       According to Owen Slot in Times this morning Clubs did their own
       investigations and last autumn Quins  apparently the Times have
       been told ‘Harlequins handed over a huge dossier’ by doing
       research through Companies House to unearth information about a
       network of co-investments Nigel Wray made with players’.
       Apparently we found an SA farm
       Amongst other things.
       Explains why Robshaw and Care led the way. Might also explain
       why 4 Directors the Year previously as maybe disagreement over
       the policy of Charles Jillings to dig. Might make the match on
       Sunday even more interesting hope Robshaw is back!
       #Post#: 36578--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Clubs assisted in investigation
   DIR By: harlequins
       Date: January 22, 2020, 3:29 am
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       I read the same this morning. It looks like Saracens were even
       worse than we thought - if that is possible! Of course Wray did
       not know what he was doing.....pigs fly....
       #Post#: 36580--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Clubs assisted in investigation
   DIR By: Monte
       Date: January 22, 2020, 3:40 am
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       Interesting that the agents were cut out of the deal and it was
       they who talked to the other Clubs. Fury over Jim Hamilton going
       there was clearly a catalyst before Daly. A step too far. I have
       always said you cannot track investments in SA and the Pacific
       Islands, but if they are in property of course you can.
       #Post#: 36583--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Clubs assisted in investigation
   DIR By: gbrangers24
       Date: January 22, 2020, 3:59 am
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       Can someone please copy and paste as it's behind a paywall?
       #Post#: 36589--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Clubs assisted in investigation
   DIR By: Nico Wilson
       Date: January 22, 2020, 4:34 am
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       Rivals’ dossier aided Saracens fall
       Rival clubs were feeding information to Premier Rugby about
       Saracens’ suspected breaches of the salary cap, helping to put
       in place the investigation that resulted in the English and
       European champions being relegated.
       Harlequins were one of the clubs that did their own
       investigations and compiled what The Times has been told was a
       “huge dossier”. The information was then passed on to Andrew
       Rogers, the Premier Rugby (PRL) salary cap manager.
       The south west London club were working on their dossier towards
       the end of 2018, which is when PRL began its investigation.
       Harlequins started searching for information through Companies
       House, unearthing information about the network of
       co-investments that Nigel Wray, the then Saracens chairman and
       owner, had entered into with some of his players.
       Harlequins also shared details about alleged property ownership
       in north London and the St Albans area and about farm ownership
       in South Africa.
       Other clubs were also passing information to Rogers, The Times
       understands. It was felt that his one-man department was
       understaffed and could do with all the help he could get.
       One of the deals that PRL was advised to investigate was the
       move by Jim Hamilton, the Scotland lock, from Montpellier to
       Saracens in 2014. Hamilton chose to go to Saracens despite the
       interest of other English clubs.
       Some of the information that the clubs passed to PRL came
       second-hand through player agents. At the time, Saracens had a
       history of cutting agents out of their players’ contract deals,
       which enraged the agents, who were then happy to pass on their
       own knowledge of how Saracens were doing their business.
       The investigation by PRL finally came to fruition in the ruling
       last November that Saracens had breached the cap in three
       successive seasons. They were initially fined £5.36 million and
       docked 35 points. When it became clear last week that they were
       set to break the salary cap again this season, they accepted
       automatic relegation.
       Throughout the process, Saracens have worked to keep information
       of the illegal deals exposed by the PRL investigation out of the
       public eye.
       Many people at PRL want to publish the judgment, but that would
       require the approval of all the clubs and Darren Childs, the PRL
       chief executive, said yesterday that Saracens had gone out of
       their way to prevent it happening.
       Two months ago, Mark McCall, the Saracens director of rugby,
       said that he would like the judgment to be published. However,
       that is clearly not the official position of the club.
       “I would be very keen to look at a more open approach,” Childs
       said. “But just so we are really clear, there is a specific
       action by Saracens to tell us not to release. We do not have
       their consent to release that document and we have that in
       writing from them.”
       Childs also said yesterday that in the unlikely event that
       Saracens overcome their 35-point deduction to finish in fourth —
       they are 29 points behind fourth-placed Sale with 14 games to go
       — they would not be allowed to compete in the play-offs.
       “The current thinking is that if they hit top four, they won’t
       be participating in the play-offs,” Childs said. “The
       fifth-placed club will take part instead. We are still working
       through the final details. This is a club that for four years in
       a row has failed to demonstrate its compliance with the league’s
       regulations.”
       Childs said that the review into PRL’s governance aimed to “make
       sure nothing like this can ever happen again.” He said: “The
       only outcome I want to make sure of is [that] we are never in
       this situation again.”
       England rules to be decided
       There is no decision yet on whether Saracens players could keep
       playing for England if they move to a foreign club on loan next
       season.
       The RFU has an agreement that all England players must play for
       an English club, barring “exceptional circumstances”. “Anything
       to do with exemptions and exceptional circumstances is a bit
       hypothetical at this stage,” Bill Sweeney, the RFU chief
       executive, said. “The first time we need to consider things like
       that are the autumn internationals.”
       Harlequins v Saracens
       Gallagher Premiership, Sunday, 3pm
       BT Sport 2
       #Post#: 36593--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Clubs assisted in investigation
   DIR By: harlequins
       Date: January 22, 2020, 4:40 am
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       Saracens really did all they could, by the looks of it, to keep
       their dodgy dealings secret by cutting out agents. If there were
       overseas dodgy payments then I really do think the taxman should
       have a look. If Wray is behind tax related issues then perhaps a
       review should be undertaken.
       #Post#: 36606--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Clubs assisted in investigation
   DIR By: SiB
       Date: January 22, 2020, 5:50 am
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       I like the suggestion elswhere that this is being done now and
       focusing on Quins as the press really want a big reaction on
       Sunday,
       Personally I like the suggestion of letting silence greet them
       and we just get behind our team
       #Post#: 36607--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Clubs assisted in investigation
   DIR By: honkytonk
       Date: January 22, 2020, 5:56 am
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       A tweet from Alex Shaw...
       "There are definitely two (and maybe a third) Prem clubs who
       should be sweating Quins haven’t prepared a dossier on them,
       too. In the rush to persecute Saracens, some things are being
       missed/overlooked. I can’t write it for a conflict of
       interests...but it’s there. Dig..."
       #Post#: 36609--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Clubs assisted in investigation
   DIR By: JammyGit
       Date: January 22, 2020, 5:59 am
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       Apparently we should be taking Alex Shaw's tweets with a large
       dollop of salt, he's a bit of a twitter loudmouth who doesn't
       back it up.
       #Post#: 36613--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Clubs assisted in investigation
   DIR By: N.G.A.
       Date: January 22, 2020, 6:10 am
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       As this continues it becomes more obvious that Wray and others
       in the senior management at Saracens have systematically cheated
       for a good period of time and are still intent on covering their
       tracks.
       Saracens as a whole are being punished but I think there are
       individuals who, due to dishonest behaviour, should receive bans
       from involvement in the game.
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