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#Post#: 35982--------------------------------------------------
Re: Saracens facing automatic relegation....
DIR By: honkytonk
Date: January 17, 2020, 10:20 am
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--- Quote from: Now ex-Navyquin link ---
>
> Greenwood on Sky talking about conspiracy theories and how the
club's including Quins in the lower half of the table might be
pushing for salary cap information now to sure up their own
safety. He sadly seems to be another one desperate to defend
Saracens.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thankfully it matters not what they think
#Post#: 35985--------------------------------------------------
Re: Saracens facing automatic relegation....
DIR By: Quinten Poulsen
Date: January 17, 2020, 10:29 am
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--- Quote from: MadMax link ---
>
> Well that would be a matter for his conscience. He could sign
a contract and take the money knowing there was a risk that
cheating would be revealed which would taint any trophies he won
with them or he could decide he didn't want to risk that and
sign a contract elsewhere for less money and hope to win
trophies fairly.
>
> Who is to say there aren't players or prospective players who
took the latter option?
>
> I still believe there is some integrity in the game despite Mr
Wray's efforts.
>
--- End Quote ---
So avoid playing for a club because he's aware of a risk that
they may be over the cap. I think that's a very naive view. As
Dallaglio said on his latest pod - all players want to do is get
paid as much as they can negotiate and then get on with playing.
I doubt players even compare wages, so I think it's a bit silly
to expect players to do calculations in their heads and not join
a club 'just in case'.
#Post#: 35986--------------------------------------------------
Re: Saracens facing automatic relegation....
DIR By: Rocker
Date: January 17, 2020, 10:31 am
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Yes sounds like they're gone, good too frankly. They've been
systematically cheating the cap for years, there was the "show
down" in 2105 when we all know they were breaking the cap and
now it's been proved they've been doing it since then too. Wray
isn't gone though, still the major shareholder in the parent
company.....
#Post#: 35987--------------------------------------------------
Re: Saracens facing automatic relegation....
DIR By: Quinten Poulsen
Date: January 17, 2020, 10:31 am
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--- Quote from: RodneyRegis link ---
>
> Let's not pretend that at least the players with dodgy deals
did not know full well.
>
--- End Quote ---
Why? If Wray told them everything would be declared and that
Sarries would be within the cap then why the heck would they
believe otherwise?
#Post#: 35988--------------------------------------------------
Re: Saracens facing automatic relegation....
DIR By: Fearless Fred
Date: January 17, 2020, 10:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Rocker link ---
>
> Yes sounds like they're gone, good too frankly. They've been
systematically cheating the cap for years, there was the "show
down" in 2105 when we all know they were breaking the cap and
now it's been proved they've been doing it since then too. Wray
isn't gone though, still the major shareholder in the parent
company.....
>
--- End Quote ---
Wray has handed his shares to his children, I believe, along
with stepping down as a director.
--- Quote from: Quinten Poulsen link ---
>
> Why? If Wray told them everything would be declared and that
Sarries would be within the cap then why the heck would they
believe otherwise?
>
--- End Quote ---
Indeed. The players may have been told that this all conformed
to the rules & certain perks like the investment by Wray into
side ventures wasn't part of the salary cap consideration. The
players would have left that to their agent & accountant to deal
with. That said, given the ridiculous depth of internationals
that they could field, they should have at least been suspicious
as to why other clubs weren't as well stocked as theirs was.
#Post#: 35989--------------------------------------------------
Re: Saracens facing automatic relegation....
DIR By: harlequins
Date: January 17, 2020, 10:46 am
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They should be handed a 35 point fine every week. There must be
zero chance of staying up. I cannot see English clubs wanting
the Saracens players, they are tainted and too expensive. I also
can’t see many French clubs wanting them as they would risk
breaching their own French salary cap. Wray certainly has
impacted the future of Saracens.
#Post#: 35990--------------------------------------------------
Re: Saracens facing automatic relegation....
DIR By: DOK
Date: January 17, 2020, 10:48 am
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And this is the Telegraph article
Saracens players told Premiership relegation inevitable after
club accepts another 35-point deduction
Daniel Schofield, Deputy Rugby Union Correspondent 17 January
2020 • 2:46pm
Saracens players have been told the club will accept a further
35-point deduction that will effectively spell relegation from
the Premiership.
The English and European champions were deducted 35 points and
fined £5.4 million having been in breach of Premiership Rugby’s
salary cap over the past three seasons. Rival clubs remain
convinced that they are spending way over the £7m limit this
season, by as much as £2m.
After a meeting of Premiership clubs on Tuesday night, Saracens
were subsequently handed an ultimatum to prove they were
compliant with the cap this season or face a further draconian
punishment.
New chief executive Edward Griffiths was confident that he could
trim the wage bill at first by offloading squad players and
those coming towards the end of their contracts. However, with
the majority of Premiership clubs spending up to the salary cap,
that task proved far harder than he first imagined, particularly
as few clubs were willing to grant Saracens any favours. Nor
could Saracens simply release players from their contracts as
severance payments would count towards the cap.
It seems that Saracens have now accepted their fate and told the
players at a meeting on Friday they are certain to be playing in
English rugby’s second tier next season. The second deduction
would bring their points down to -42 points, which would put
them 53 points away from safety, as it stands, with 14 matches
left to play. Only a miracle could keep them in the division.
Telegraph Sport understands players face individual meetings
next week to discuss their futures. Saracens provided a large
portion of the England team that reached the World Cup Final
including the Vunipola brothers, Owen Farrell and Maro Itoje,
whose co-investments with former chairman Nigel Wray first
attracted the attention of Premiership Rugby’s salary cap
manager, Andrew Rogers.
The Rugby Football Union have indicated that there is nothing to
stop England head coach Eddie Jones from selecting players in
the Championship, but whether matches against the likes of
Ampthill and Hartpury would be sufficient preparation for
international rugby is entirely another matter. Particularly in
the season leading into the Lions tour to South Africa, those
leading players face a stark test of their loyalty to each other
and the club.
Saracens have the opportunity to qualify for the knockout stages
of the Champions Cup if they beat Racing 92 at Allianz Park on
Sunday. However even if they won European rugby’s elite
competition for a fourth time, they would not be allowed to
defend their title next season as sides sitting outside the
Premiership are ineligible to compete.
#Post#: 35991--------------------------------------------------
Re: Saracens facing automatic relegation....
DIR By: TeddingtonQuin
Date: January 17, 2020, 10:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinten Poulsen link ---
>
> I would guess only Wray and possibly other board members would
know anything for sure.
>
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote from: InsertQuinsPunHere link ---
>
> I have a vague memory of him being asked a salary cap question
at a QUINSSA event in February last year. Maybe someone with a
better recall of what happened can jump in, but didn't he raise
an eyebrow in a conspiratorial fashion, mutter something
non-committal, and promptly change the subject?
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm pretty sure he knows a fair bit, he hinted at it on one of
the Q&A meetings, back just before the season started. I also
asked a question on 'the battle between good and evil and how we
beat Salarycens' which he had a chuckle about then talked on
about training and preparation etc
#Post#: 35992--------------------------------------------------
Re: Saracens facing automatic relegation....
DIR By: TeddingtonQuin
Date: January 17, 2020, 10:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: MadMax link ---
>
> My bet is a lot. He was in charge of recruitment there wasn't
he?
>
> Nigel Wray has rightly come in for a lot of flak for his part
in the cheating and there seems no doubt he was the main
instigator but there are many others who were silently complicit
in my opinion.
>
--- End Quote ---
The lot of them were in it surely? You can't run a club and be
hiring players and not add it all up!
#Post#: 35993--------------------------------------------------
Re: Saracens facing automatic relegation....
DIR By: Quinten Poulsen
Date: January 17, 2020, 10:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: harlequins link ---
>
> They should be handed a 35 point fine every week. There must
be zero chance of staying up. I cannot see English clubs wanting
the Saracens players, they are tainted and too expensive. I also
can’t see many French clubs wanting them as they would risk
breaching their own French salary cap. Wray certainly has
impacted the future of Saracens.
>
--- End Quote ---
Their players would have no problems getting signed by other
clubs, assuming you're talking about changing clubs between
seasons.
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