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#Post#: 36277--------------------------------------------------
Re: Saracens facing automatic relegation....
DIR By: Saintquin
Date: January 19, 2020, 11:28 am
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--- Quote from: Fearless Fred link ---
>
> Anyone wanting to subject themselves to the full Stephen Jones
article, here it is...
>
--- End Quote ---
He's an idiot.
Just can't see how anybody can defend them!
#Post#: 36278--------------------------------------------------
Re: Saracens facing automatic relegation....
DIR By: Nunquam Dormio
Date: January 19, 2020, 11:29 am
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--- Quote from: Grubs link ---
>
> It’s a hell of a leap from failing to comply with a salary cap
to tax evasion. The Saracens company will have to account for
corporation tax, employer’s NIC, PAYE, etc. and the individual
players for their own taxable income but they’re in no way
linked to the cap arrangement.
>
--- End Quote ---
Just saying that if Saracens do not want to open up their books
and take relegation instead there is likely to be reasons for
wanting to keep the books closed. There was suggestions
previously that family members were paid instead of the player
themselves. Tax avoidance is legal but tax evasion is subject
the criminal prosecution.
In the interview with McCall on BT Sport earlier today I think
he said that the PRL wanted access to the last ten years books.
Therefore what may they want to hide over such an extended
period.
The only way forward is for all clubs to be subject to
independent scrutiny each year. I hope it happens and quickly.
#Post#: 36280--------------------------------------------------
Re: Saracens facing automatic relegation....
DIR By: T-Bone
Date: January 19, 2020, 12:24 pm
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I believe that most or all clubs have community programmes. A
lot of clubs contribute players to England. Quite a few put a
lot of time and effort into their academies too. Sarries academy
probably does particularly well because the young players get to
train with 30 internationals every week and can be introduced
into a team that's always winning.
Jones is so pathetic.
#Post#: 36283--------------------------------------------------
Re: Saracens facing automatic relegation....
DIR By: Rocker
Date: January 19, 2020, 12:35 pm
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Jones is a bitter twisted old Welsh idiot!
How can anyone defend them? Why don't the pundits realise that
Sarries were/are so good because of their cheating?
It's easy to be far and away the best team in the country when
you're spending far more money than everyone else!!
#Post#: 36290--------------------------------------------------
Re: Saracens facing automatic relegation....
DIR By: Pat
Date: January 19, 2020, 1:03 pm
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As a new rugby fan, having just got into it after my son started
playing, I can be pretty objective on this...
Relegation is not harsh at all. In football, Rangers were
relegated a number of divisions whereas Saracens can be back
after 1 season.
I thought Saracens were one of our biggest rugby clubs and was
surprised how small their fanbase was. In the past I've just
watched Rugby World Cups and the occasional 6 Nations match and
even I could recognise that they had far more big name players
than anyone else. With a salary cap, how could anyone think that
there wasn't something dodgy happening? Of course they were the
best, it was like men against boys. As someone else said,
Saracens' victories were like Lance Armstrong's and I'd go
further and say that their titles should be removed from the
record books. In saying that I would let the players keep the
medals but what a mess. Had London Irish for example been
relegated this season while blatant cheats stayed up...and
Saracens would no doubt have overhauled the 35 point penalty,
that would have been a disgrace.
#Post#: 36292--------------------------------------------------
Re: Saracens facing automatic relegation....
DIR By: DOK
Date: January 19, 2020, 1:18 pm
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The issue between tax evasion/avoidance is interesting too.
Sure, if they paid you £800,000 but only told the salary cap
bloke it was £600,000 then that's fine if they paid all the tax
etc... However, if someone buys you an interest in a house for
the express purpose of giving you additional remuneration, is
that income? Should you pay capital gains tax when the house is
sold? I suspect a lot of lawyers could get rich arguing over
this. Maybe we should just use the HMRC confidential tip off
line to report Faz and the Vunipolas and let HMRC sort it out.
#Post#: 36295--------------------------------------------------
Re: Saracens facing automatic relegation....
DIR By: Mayor West
Date: January 19, 2020, 1:52 pm
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I’ve just discovered that there is a rugby club out west called
Exeter Saracens. I bet they wish they had chosen something else
now.
#Post#: 36296--------------------------------------------------
Re: Saracens facing automatic relegation....
DIR By: harlequins
Date: January 19, 2020, 2:08 pm
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--- Quote from: Grubs link ---
>
> It’s a hell of a leap from failing to comply with a salary cap
to tax evasion. The Saracens company will have to account for
corporation tax, employer’s NIC, PAYE, etc. and the individual
players for their own taxable income but they’re in no way
linked to the cap arrangement.
>
--- End Quote ---
I have also wondered if there are tax implications. The players
must know how much they have been paid but are they including
payment in kind for, apparently, the holidays they got given?
Should people like Farrell face the courts?
#Post#: 36297--------------------------------------------------
Re: Saracens facing automatic relegation....
DIR By: Grubs
Date: January 19, 2020, 2:12 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DOK link ---
>
> The issue between tax evasion/avoidance is interesting too.
Sure, if they paid you £800,000 but only told the salary cap
bloke it was £600,000 then that's fine if they paid all the tax
etc... However, if someone buys you an interest in a house for
the express purpose of giving you additional remuneration, is
that income? Should you pay capital gains tax when the house is
sold? I suspect a lot of lawyers could get rich arguing over
this. Maybe we should just use the HMRC confidential tip off
line to report Faz and the Vunipolas and let HMRC sort it out.
>
--- End Quote ---
It’s up to the individual players to file accurate tax returns
detailing all of their taxable income. What makes you think they
might not have done so?
#Post#: 36307--------------------------------------------------
Re: Saracens facing automatic relegation....
DIR By: dogger
Date: January 19, 2020, 4:21 pm
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The author flips around a bit
HTML https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51168926
but there is a wonderful paragraph:
"This is not inadvertent financial mismanagement, which has
taken down plenty of great sporting institutions in the
helter-skelter dash for glory and its monetary rewards. It is
deliberate and clandestine circumvention of the rules, over a
significant period of time. It is cheating."
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