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#Post#: 35598--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer Talk
DIR By: TomBuckQuin
Date: January 11, 2020, 9:16 am
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Exactly my point. Salary cap aside for one second, Sarries have
plenty of world leading players in their ranks. Have they just
developed them to their peak and then let them leave? No.
They've built a whole team of top quality players around them so
that they don't feel the need to leave. Why would you?
And of course I know what some of you will say: "Oh, but they're
cheating". Well if we take them on their word that they are
going to keep hold of their England contingent and come properly
under the cap - and that is proven to be the case when the
investigators are sent in in the summer then that will put that
argument to bed. Of course that's yet to be seen, but for me it
just feels that our priorities are all wrong. Our recruitment
has always been quantity over quality right up to the cap limit,
which doesn't give any slack for extension negotiations when
someone like Kyle goes global. What happens if/when Dombrandt is
the best number 8 in the world, or if/when Marcus is England's
starting FH, or if/when Ibitoye learns to defend? It's like
there's no planning going on behind the scenes.
Are we going to keep doing things this way? For me, I haven't
seen anything that convinces me it's going to work. Then again,
I have no idea what our ambitions are any more. Maybe we are
just happy avoiding relegation some years, almost making the
Prem semi-finals other years.
#Post#: 35601--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer Talk
DIR By: honkytonk
Date: January 11, 2020, 9:28 am
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Can you leave the salary cap aside when talking about sarries??
They have built a ridiculous squad, not by fair means but by
cheating. There is no getting away from that. Had we done the
same I dare say we would have a pretty nifty squad ourselves.
Look at the side they put out today, the players they had
missing. I get what you are saying, they may well keep most of
their England players, will be interesting to see the make up of
the rest of the squad though.
#Post#: 35602--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer Talk
DIR By: Albig
Date: January 11, 2020, 10:33 am
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The squad this year has very much been effected by the late
retirements of Visser and Kev, add in Earle’s injury.
Tex, Goneva, Ismaiel signings are all due to this. He had to
sign players to cover there departure at a late stage.
You need a big squad even if some do not play to be there in
case of injuries, hold tackle shields - be opposition in
training etc etc....Some players will be just this. Lambert,
Swainston, Freeman being obvious one to me.
Once he realised he had some spare cash he re-signed Swainston.
Last year Lambert had a deal that meant he could only be picked
for certain games - was due to salary cap etc.
Other players like Chisholm know they are 3rd choice, will play
if major injuries, but can do a job and are solid enough.
#Post#: 35605--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer Talk
DIR By: TomBuckQuin
Date: January 11, 2020, 11:09 am
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I just don't buy that. Your academy players are there to hold
tackle bags/provide oppo in training. They also develop much
quicker the closer they are to the big boys. See Saints as an
example of this. They've got their squad balance right. Take
some proper current internationals (Lawes, Reinach, Biggar),
sprinkle in some additional overseas stardust (Naiyaravoro,
Proctor) and trust your youngsters to provide cover. In Saints'
case, their youngsters have more than paid back that trust by,
in some cases, nailing down regular match day squad shirts.
Exeter adding internationals to their squad each season, Sale
have brought in serious quality. I just don't see how we stack
up in comparison. Again, as I've posited before, maybe it just
comes down to our negotiators doing a really bad job in contract
negotiations, maybe it's a planning thing. We should have been
in a position to compete for Sink's signature. I do feel let
down.
We also need to have a conversation about why it seems we have
consistently had one of the highest rates of injury in the
league - but that's for another thread.
#Post#: 35607--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer Talk
DIR By: Albig
Date: January 11, 2020, 12:22 pm
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We still do not know the precise situation with Sinckler.
However let’s say he wants £500K. But if he can not be a marquee
player and his previous salary was half that it means you have
to make big cuts elsewhere. Might just not be worth the money
for us, with the rules, number of games and what he brings to
the squad. Massive shame but that is the business.
As for training and squad you need big squads to be able to have
good competition for places, training etc etc. Some people are
signed who the boss knows will never start in premiership unless
major injuries.
Where Exeter are doing better than us is through the academy.
Our Academy has not produced the players in past 5 years.
Perhaps reason for changes here with staffing and setup. Surrey,
Sussex London has some of the biggest pool of players - clubs
and schools.
#Post#: 35609--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer Talk
DIR By: The Quin Meister
Date: January 11, 2020, 12:53 pm
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--- Quote from: TomBuckQuin link ---
>
> I guess the frustration, being a Quins fan as most of us are,
is that we arguably have one big player and we can't hold onto
him! We seem to be the perennial "in development/in
transition/work in progress/tonnes of potential" team. Whereas
Saracens are making moves to come under the cap whilst still
talking about keeping hold of all of Vunipola, George, Itoje,
other Vunipola, Farrell and Daly...
>
> I trusted Gussy when he talked about bringing squad numbers
down - quality over quantity. That's what Quins have never quite
mastered in terms of compiling a seriously talented squad, bar
those couple of very good seasons.
>
> Then he went and made up the numbers with, just to name a few
of the horde, the likes of Glen Young, Toby Freeman, Travis
Ismaiel, an ancient Niki Goneva. He threw a complete 180 and now
we have a squad filled out with players who make me wince when I
see their names on the team sheet. The re-signings of Phil
Swainston and Ross Chisholm just confirmed to me that his talk
had been just that. Either he'd had a recruitment strategy that
had completely unravelled - or he really believes that
"coachability" trumps raw ability. The sooner Quins realise that
some players are born special and that these players haven't
been coached into these bodies, the better.
>
> I'm gutted Sinckler's off and surprised that many people on
here are suggesting he's easily replaceable by the likes of
Williams, Balmain etc. No, that is a drop off in quality.
Sinckler is exactly the type of player a club aspiring to win
things would be keeping hold of.
>
--- End Quote ---
What?! "We arguably have one big player and we can't hold on to
him!" Really? Yes, Kyle is international class. But so is
Marler, Browny, Robshaw, Care, Marcus and Dombrandt. Dommers may
not have played for England yet, but he is already a class act.
Right now. If we have to lose Kyle but keep Marchant and Dommers
then that's life under the salary cap. Things are difficult at
the moment but injuries are hurting us. I think Gussy will get
us through it.
As for comparing us to the lovely settled squad at Saracens. I
don't think it will be so settled for much longer......
#Post#: 35610--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer Talk
DIR By: Liverpoolquin
Date: January 11, 2020, 12:58 pm
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Regarding the academy, the Under 18 side this season contains
some very strong players- Fin Baxter the tight head captained
Englands under 18 tour to SA and winger Cassius Cleaves looked a
step above everyone else in today's game
#Post#: 35613--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer Talk
DIR By: Albig
Date: January 11, 2020, 2:32 pm
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This year’s academy is very good, 3 England U18 boys from last
summer. Unlikely though to see them for a few years!
#Post#: 35615--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer Talk
DIR By: Quinky
Date: January 11, 2020, 2:50 pm
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--- Quote from: The Quin Meister link ---
>
> What?! "We arguably have one big player and we can't hold on
to him!" Really? Yes, Kyle is international class. But so is
Marler, Browny, Robshaw, Care, Marcus and Dombrandt. Dommers may
not have played for England yet, but he is already a class act.
Right now. If we have to lose Kyle but keep Marchant and Dommers
then that's life under the salary cap. Things are difficult at
the moment but injuries are hurting us. I think Gussy will get
us through it.
>
> As for comparing us to the lovely settled squad at Saracens. I
don't think it will be so settled for much longer......
>
--- End Quote ---
And Sarries squad should be looked at over the next few seasons.
When current contracts expire, and there's no way of giving a
golden handcuffs deal, will the current big earners stick
around?
#Post#: 35616--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer Talk
DIR By: Twickersman
Date: January 11, 2020, 3:03 pm
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When was the last time we have had an excellent right head
(Sinclair) and lose head (Marler) both are mid to late twenties.
The death of Seb Adeniran-Olule obviously affected this RIP. Fin
Baxter looks and sounds a great young player. But realistically
he is two to three years away from competing at prem level.
Locks like Twomey, Matthews and Merrick have gone onto pastures
new. Twomey seems to be that got away!
We have a number of older players on big money and it will take
a while to get them wrung out of the systems. Until then we are
handicaped.
The salary cap is tough, we are probably in a similar position.
To Saracens when Brednden Venter came in. He picked up Gustard
and he was part of the team that turned Sarries culture around.
I would give him at least two more season to see what his squad
will be like once Robshaw, Care and Brown are retired or moved
on.
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