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#Post#: 31254--------------------------------------------------
Re: Time to go Gustard
DIR By: quinalan
Date: November 11, 2019, 12:20 pm
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I just felt that 15 new signings is too many at once. One player
I think we could have kept was Alofa, surely he is a better fit
than a 36 year old Goneva? Lets hope Gustard can sort out the
coaching issue & we start to tighten & toughen up.
#Post#: 31255--------------------------------------------------
Re: Time to go Gustard
DIR By: D-Quins
Date: November 11, 2019, 12:27 pm
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Personally I would expect that Goneva is not on big money and
that he represents good value for what he is paid. He is
certainly different from both wingers on the pitch yesterday.
With Earl out long term (the season) and he is a quality
replacement. He is at the end of his career so no long term
commitment needed.
#Post#: 31258--------------------------------------------------
Re: Time to go Gustard
DIR By: MadMax
Date: November 11, 2019, 12:49 pm
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--- Quote from: A222Quin link ---
>
> Yes, there's been a few since the turn of the 2010s but
they're not being produced in the same numbers that we used to.
>
--- End Quote ---
True but you could also say the standard of the Premiership has
increased dramatically in the last ten years (even ignoring the
cheating club from Barnet) so what was a good prospect then
isn't such a good one today.
#Post#: 31263--------------------------------------------------
Re: Time to go Gustard
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: November 11, 2019, 1:57 pm
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--- Quote from: fandg2 link ---
>
> Nope, what I'm 'advocating' (not sure that's quite the right
word) is that we should have kept the faith with the bulk of
academy graduates. They'll always be some that will go by the
wayside through 'natural selection' but in the main the Academy
process churns out a usable product. Not everyone can be one of
the Robshaws or Marlers
>
--- End Quote ---
Saying we should have kept faith is an interesting turn of
phrase. Essentially you're saying we should have kept perennial
underachievers because we hoped they might improve. I can't
think of many players who went on to improve elsewhere.
#Post#: 31267--------------------------------------------------
Re: Time to go Gustard
DIR By: fandg2
Date: November 11, 2019, 3:22 pm
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--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> Saying we should have kept faith is an interesting turn of
phrase. Essentially you're saying we should have kept perennial
underachievers because we hoped they might improve. I can't
think of many players who went on to improve elsewhere.
>
--- End Quote ---
Not so sure all or any 'under achieved'. It's a subjective
subject for starters. To some, just getting offered a pro
contract might be seem to be an achievement. To other's the
achievement is being a nailed on starter. I guess the 'other'
stages of achievement are somewhere inbetween those two
parameters. Depends on ones expectation I suppose.
FWIW I can readily think of a non Quins player who went on to
'improve' elseware. Sam Underhill, did'nt make England U20s as
too small I believe, got let go by Gloucester so went to Uni in
Wales, played for Uni then picked up by Osprey's, kept Tiperic
out of the side, picked up by Bath and the rest is history ;-)
Hasn't actually changed his game much since I first saw him for
England U16s, tackled anything that moved then and still does
#Post#: 31274--------------------------------------------------
Re: Time to go Gustard
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: November 11, 2019, 4:36 pm
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What relevance does Underhill have?
I genuinely don't understand your point. You're not willing to
actually name anyone, but you claim they didn't under acheive
because maybe getting a pro contract was their ceiling. Who are
you talking about? Why should that be good enough for Quins?
We're trying to promote players who are good enough to play
professional club rugby at the highest level, not just be paid
to play rugby.
Here's academy dudes we've lost:
Harry Sloan. Went to Ealing, which is about right. He's 25 and
never really kicked on from his U20s promise. Under acheived.
Sam Aspland-Robinson. Went to Tigers. Talented, but a complete
sick note. Not sure if we let him go or Tigers just outbid us.
Has barely played for Tigers thanks to injury (surprise.) Was an
U20 star, could still make it, too big a risk for us given our
fragile squad.
Charlie Matthews. U20s star, gone to Wasps age 27 after never
fulfilling his promise. Wasps fans groan when he starts matches.
Perennial disappointment to Quins fans. Quite liked the guy but
massive under-acheiver.
Sam Twomey. Good U20s player, turned into an alright club
player, nothing special. Injured a lot. Went to yo-yo club
London Irish. Barely played for them.
George Merrick. Went to Clermont! Big, strong guy, who seemed to
have finally found some consistency in his final season with us.
Bit of a penalty liability, but perhaps a loss. Went to a big
team.
Josh Ibuanopke. Went to the salary cap cheats. Didn't seem to be
able to find a position he was good in. Will be surprised if he
makes it, but time is on his side.
Luke Wallace. Nearly 30. Went to Coventry, after a series of
injuries turned him from one of our brightest prospects to
barely Premiership standard.
Stan South. 16 Premiership appearances in 4 years for Quins
tells its own story. Went to Exeter after an injury run meant
they gazumped Coventry, his original destination. Good luck to
him, will be surprised if he makes a dent in their squad.
Henry Cheeseman. Not sure if he's a forward or a back. Also not
sure if he's actually still a Quin or not.
There's not a whole lot to argue with there. We can't keep
everyone and a lot of our academy graduates simply haven't been
good enough.
#Post#: 31277--------------------------------------------------
Re: Time to go Gustard
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: November 11, 2019, 5:30 pm
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Yeah, fair summation.
We've got a good starting 15/23, most of them are away at the
moment for whatever reason. We have replaced a lot of dross with
more dross though.
Really, really annoyed about Marchant, especially as he should
really be pushing to get on the bench for the 6n.
#Post#: 31290--------------------------------------------------
Re: Time to go Gustard
DIR By: never sleep
Date: November 12, 2019, 3:01 am
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I would have liked to keep one or both of Twomey / Merrick.
Agree that they didn't set the world on fire, but we seem to
break a lot of locks and these two were decent backup. They
were also slowly improving. I'm not 100% convinced that our
"squad" locks that we have bought in are significantly better.
Although I did like the look of Cavubati on Saturday. He
appeared to be putting in quite a shift when we were defending
our line.
#Post#: 31291--------------------------------------------------
Re: Time to go Gustard
DIR By: fandg2
Date: November 12, 2019, 3:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> What relevance does Underhill have?
>
> I genuinely don't understand your point....
>
--- End Quote ---
With respect to Sam Underhill relevance,
You said “I can't think of many players who went on to improve
elsewhere.”
So I offered Sam as an example. That’s his relevance.
With respect to “ I genuinely don't understand your point.”
T-Bone obviously did so I’ll just cut and paste his comment from
yesterday on this thread from 17:40.
Hopefully you’ll understand the point now. My point being, in a
nutshell from his quote, “I don't see the point in letting them
go only to replace them with players who don't really look the
part either.” Hope that clears it up for you.
Quote T-Bone from this thread yesterday at 17:40
“I guess you could argue that you might as well keep an average
academy product rather than bringing in an average player from
another club, be it championship or premiership.
Pros are as fandg2 says that they've been with the club, maybe
more loyal and willing to fight for their team mates. Know the
club better, their retention possibly good for morale.
Cons are that maybe they're too comfortable - something that I
think could be fairly levelled at some of the recent players
who've left, maybe they'd expect a higher wage as they've come
through the system.
I don't see any point in keeping an academy player who just
doesn't look up to it, but at the same time I don't see the
point in letting them go only to replace them with players who
don't really look the part either.
I suppose though that Gustard might feel they've been given
plenty of opportunities and he's had a good chance to look at
them and doesn’t think they'll cut it, whereas maybe he can
improve players he's signed.
I can see it both ways really.
I do think we've produced some pretty decent players from the
academy over the past 5 years or so, but we haven't had the hit
rate of past years.”
PS Cheeseman has left the club, turned down offers from
Championship clubs to get a ‘real’ job and turns out for Rosslyn
Park at 13 in his spare time now. Sam Twoomy also plays there
now. Incidentally whilst on the subject of old academy boy’s,
JTH has just left Rosslyn Park to take up a DOR post at Ipswich
School.
#Post#: 31299--------------------------------------------------
Re: Time to go Gustard
DIR By: never sleep
Date: November 12, 2019, 3:28 am
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I would expect to see Cheeseman playing on Saturday when
Richmond FC take on Rosslyn Park (3:00pm kick off). It should
be interesting to see him turn out against his old club.
You may also get a chance to see June Porno Salad, Dave Lewis
and the Goat Man playing.
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