DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
ComeAllWithin (Harlequins Rugby)
HTML https://comeallwithin.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: ComeAllWithin Board
*****************************************************
#Post#: 28026--------------------------------------------------
Re: Saracens salary cap storm transferred to independent panel
DIR By: gregory p
Date: September 6, 2019, 11:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I found this flier at Sarries game some years ago....it was when
Chris Ashton had his ban for gouging contact with the eye
area......and it seems topical again
[attach=1]
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 28033--------------------------------------------------
Re: Saracens salary cap storm transferred to independent panel
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: September 6, 2019, 2:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DOK link ---
>
> Investigations Into Sarries' Salary Cap Heats Up
HTML https://rugby365.com/countries/england/investigations-into-sarries-salary-cap-heats-up
>
> Some interesting stuff on the possible sanctions here
>
--- End Quote ---
A list of sanctions, not any actual report on the case
whatsoever.
#Post#: 28035--------------------------------------------------
Re: Saracens salary cap storm transferred to independent panel
DIR By: Rocker
Date: September 6, 2019, 2:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I just hope that they get the book thrown at them. It's not the
first time they've been caught "bending" the salary cap rules
and breaking them in spirit if not in the actual letter.
Despicable behaviour
#Post#: 28037--------------------------------------------------
Re: Saracens salary cap storm transferred to independent panel
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: September 6, 2019, 2:51 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Donuts link ---
>
> I think it will be difficult to confirm the value of the
benefit to the players.
> As I see it basically a company is formed and it acquires a
property asset with a substantial loan from Nigel Wray.
> At that point the company has no value as its assets (the
property) equal the liabilities (the loan still due to Nigel
Wray).
> the only time that the player will benefit is if the asset
grows in value which as it is property over time it is likely to
or Nigel Wray decides he doesn't need his money back (which I
suspect is what the plan is) and he agrees to write the loan
off.
> But if he doesn't do this until the player has long since
retired then up until then the only increase in value is the
gain in the property value plus any income form rental profits
earned in the period. Normally properties in Investment
companies should revalue their properties every three years but
this isn't always done and in any case a friendly valuer can
easily make this prudent.
>
> then there is the argument that all Nigel Wray is doing is
acting as a mortgage provider (until/or if he writes the loan
off).
>
> If he doesn't then all he is doing is as he claims helping
take a step up the business ladder for their life beyond rugby
>
> would welcome other thoughts on this
>
>
>
--- End Quote ---
I think you're making a mistake treating this as a
business/accounting transaction.
The point is that if the club/ionvestors are allowed to give
loans, whether waived or repaid, they are getting round the cap.
It's not illegal, and it's not an illegitimate business
decision, it's a cap issue alone. And it's clearly a
transactions which, even if not precluded under the current
terms and thus considered a loophole, it will destroy the salary
cap.
I would think that Sarries will escape sanction with some
wishy-washy nonsense about the spirit of the rules, but the
loophole will be closed. Obviously the money can't be taken
back, but Sarries won't be able to use the tactic again.
Presumably the services of those players have been brought, I
should think they have private agreements saying they have to
give a certain number of years to the club, but they won't be
able to bring anyone else in. One wonders if they have made
promises to other signings which have been put on the back
burner and we might see some high profile moves, or even players
suing the club.
#Post#: 28039--------------------------------------------------
Re: Saracens salary cap storm transferred to independent panel
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: September 6, 2019, 2:58 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Having said that, hmmm. I'm not sure HMRC would be particularly
happy with a business or investor giving significant loans to an
employee outside PAYE. I hope any loans are charged interest at
market rate. Even if not, there's a potential benefit there. Is
Section 455 tax payable by Sarries?
#Post#: 28040--------------------------------------------------
Re: Saracens salary cap storm transferred to independent panel
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: September 6, 2019, 3:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> any payment or benefit in kind paid or payable, provided or to
be provided directly
> or indirectly to or in respect of a Senior Player of a Club as
part of that Player's Benefit
> Year by:
> (i) a Third Party or Third Parties; or
> (ii) a Connected Party of the Club provided that:
> (A) the event or events in question has not been arranged
specifically for a
> Connected Party. An event will be deemed to have been
specifically
> arranged for a Connected Party if the majority of the
attendees are
> representatives or guests of a Connected Party or Connected
Parties;
> (B) the event or events in question has not been sponsored,
hosted by or
> subsidised by a Connected Party;
> (C) any such payment or benefit in kind from a Connected Party
or a
> representative of a Connected Party is paid or provided on the
same or
> similar terms and has the same or similar financial value as
payments
> or benefits in kind paid or provided by Third Parties
attending the same
> event. Any such payment or benefit in kind paid or provided by
a
> Connected Party or a representative of a Connected Party which
has a
> financial value over and above what is paid or provided by
Third Parties
> attending the same event will be prima facie deemed to
constitute
> Salary; and
> (D) any such payment or benefit in kind from a Connected Party
or a
> representative of a Connected Party is, in the reasonable
opinion of the
> Salary Cap Manager, in line with payments or benefits provided
by
> Third Parties at the same or similar events by reference to
events held
> for the benefit of players of similar standing
--- End Quote ---
Bang to rights surely?
#Post#: 28062--------------------------------------------------
Re: Saracens salary cap storm transferred to independent panel
DIR By: Yareet
Date: September 7, 2019, 4:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RodneyRegis link ---
>
> Bang to rights surely?
>
--- End Quote ---
I think that clause is specific to benefit years.
Not saying there isn’t another clause that covers general
players
#Post#: 28082--------------------------------------------------
Re: Saracens salary cap storm transferred to independent panel
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: September 8, 2019, 4:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Surely, as in refereeing, you make a judgement on the outcome
not on the lead up events. As a result of what Saracens have
done they have World Class players they simply could not have
retained under the Salary Cap.
Dock them 30 points and fine them a couple of £million to be
paid out of the current Salary Cap. Also, have their books
audited weekly.
*****************************************************
Page 3 of 3
DIR Previous Page