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       #Post#: 27397--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
   DIR By: Blucherquin
       Date: August 17, 2019, 8:46 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Quinky link ---
       >
       > Blucher, I'm not your "mate", and doubt I ever will be.
       >
       > The only equality I actually want is equality of opportunity.
       I've visited many clubs over the years, and have never seen a
       sign denying entry to blacks or Irish. Care to point out which
       ones have these signs?
       >
       > So less people of specific groups play rugby. Have you
       considered that maybe they just don't want to?
       >
       > But since you appear to want to dredge up historical racism,
       I'd best not introduce you to my partner. She's Swedish, and no
       doubt you're fuming at what the Vikings did.
       >
       > I suggest you try joining the 21st century instead of
       festering in your historic rage.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       You said that people who raised diversity has soured everything.
       I just want to know when you think that happened that’s all -
       and which of those efforts to tackle a lack of diversity you
       find objectionable.
       It has - of course - become popular to feign outrage and pretend
       you’re unfairly being accused of racism, as a smokescreen to
       answering a question. I very clearly didn’t accuse you of racism
       or use the word at any point.
       If you think only white rich people want to at rugby - that’s
       fine. Maybe don’t tell Ugo. He seems to think it’s important.
       But he’s just an England and Lions rugby player who is also
       black so he’s probably not as qualified to comment as you.
       Although you do agree with him because equality of opportunity
       is exactly what he’s talking about.
       #Post#: 27399--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
   DIR By: Quinky
       Date: August 17, 2019, 9:03 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Blucherquin link ---
       >
       > You said that people who raised diversity has soured
       everything. I just want to know when you think that happened
       that’s all.
       >
       > If you think only white rich people want to at rugby - that’s
       fine. Maybe don’t tell Ugo.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I think a lot of people want to play rugby, and do. I've met
       people of all hues and levels of wealth playing the game. They
       all had one thing in common. I've met plenty of Irish players
       too. They must have missed your fabled sign. I've even
       encountered teams where white players were in the minority. What
       discrimination is at play there?
       In many walks of life there are supposedly well meaning do
       gooders / social justice warriors inspecting metrics and
       bleating when they find their desired targets aren't being met.
       An example is the griping about women supposedly earning less
       than men, whilst ignoring the country's highest paid executive
       being female. I could go on, but I suspect you may not be
       receptive.
       #Post#: 27400--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
   DIR By: Yareet
       Date: August 17, 2019, 9:17 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Quinky link ---
       >
       > An example is the griping about women supposedly earning less
       than men, whilst ignoring the country's highest paid executive
       being female.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Yes but the other 9 of the top 10 are men. Do you understand the
       concept of an average?
       #Post#: 27409--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
   DIR By: Quinten Poulsen
       Date: August 17, 2019, 10:30 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The BBC should run schools rugby in England.
       #Post#: 27420--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
   DIR By: Blucherquin
       Date: August 17, 2019, 11:51 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Quinky link ---
       >
       > I think a lot of people want to play rugby, and do. I've met
       people of all hues and levels of wealth playing the game. They
       all had one thing in common. I've met plenty of Irish players
       too. They must have missed your fabled sign. I've even
       encountered teams where white players were in the minority. What
       discrimination is at play there?
       >
       > In many walks of life there are supposedly well meaning do
       gooders / social justice warriors inspecting metrics and
       bleating when they find their desired targets aren't being met.
       An example is the griping about women supposedly earning less
       than men, whilst ignoring the country's highest paid executive
       being female. I could go on, but I suspect you may not be
       receptive.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       What discrimination are you taking about?
       You raised discrimination. The thread wasn’t about
       discrimination.
       If you think everyone has a chance to play rugby - you’re wrong.
       The facts don’t agree with you. You don’t appear to want to
       change that, which is up you.
       Maybe you don’t want people who don’t go to public school to
       play - seems a bit off to me, but hey.
       You raised discrimation, you raised your imagined social justice
       warrior - I’m just asking for some examples of where you think
       things that have changed are wrong.
       Let’s stop pissing about with your misdirection about the irish
       as if that was the heart of the point.
       What would you like to undo that has ruined life so badly from
       this list:
       - the decriminalisation of homosexuality
       - equal pay legislation for men and women
       - legislation to make racially motivated crime an aggravating
       factor in offences
       - legislation banning discrimination against people because of
       their race or gender
       This isn’t what the thread was about nor was it Ugo’s point. But
       you said that people that “bleat” have “soured” every part of
       life.
       So I’m asking you for things you’d like to change back that you
       regard as now being soured - and I’ve offered you a few
       examples.
       You may have other examples of course - due to your equality of
       opportunity to join this debate.
       #Post#: 27433--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
   DIR By: Quinky
       Date: August 18, 2019, 3:44 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Blucherquin link ---
       >
       > What discrimination are you taking about?
       >
       > You raised discrimination. The thread wasn’t about
       discrimination.
       >
       > If you think everyone has a chance to play rugby - you’re
       wrong. The facts don’t agree with you. You don’t appear to want
       to change that, which is up you.
       >
       > Maybe you don’t want people who don’t go to public school to
       play - seems a bit off to me, but hey.
       >
       > You raised discrimation, you raised your imagined social
       justice warrior - I’m just asking for some examples of where you
       think things that have changed are wrong.
       >
       > Let’s stop pissing about with your misdirection about the
       irish as if that was the heart of the point.
       >
       > What would you like to undo that has ruined life so badly from
       this list:
       >
       > - the decriminalisation of homosexuality
       > - equal pay legislation for men and women
       > - legislation to make racially motivated crime an aggravating
       factor in offences
       > - legislation banning discrimination against people because of
       their race or gender
       >
       > This isn’t what the thread was about nor was it Ugo’s point.
       But you said that people that “bleat” have “soured” every part
       of life.
       >
       > So I’m asking you for things you’d like to change back that
       you regard as now being soured - and I’ve offered you a few
       examples.
       >
       > You may have other examples of course - due to your equality
       of opportunity to join this debate.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Tell me of any rugby club in the UK that rejects anyone who
       wants to play rugby. Anyone can play if they want to.
       The only thing I want to change is people like you looking for
       some kind of perceived wrong, based on overly simplified
       metrics.
       Have you found the rugby club that rejects blacks and Irish yet?
       Or have you finally left the 1970s. Be quick, the Viking may
       slay me if I don't get a move on.
       #Post#: 27434--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
   DIR By: Quinky
       Date: August 18, 2019, 3:47 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Yareet link ---
       >
       > Yes but the other 9 of the top 10 are men. Do you understand
       the concept of an average?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       You may want to be average. I don't.
       Do you understand the concept of people being paid what they're
       worth?
       #Post#: 27439--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
   DIR By: Yareet
       Date: August 18, 2019, 4:16 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Quinky link ---
       >
       >
       > Do you understand the concept of people being paid what
       they're worth?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I do. And it doesn’t happen.
       Or more accurately certain demographics (basically white men)
       are paid more than others (women, BAME) for doing the same job.
  HTML https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/equal-pay-day-2017-gender-pay-gap-uk-a3688011.html
       A quick Google search brings up a range of articles for a
       subject you claim doesn’t exist all of which point to men being
       paid more than women for the same job and level of experience -
       ranging from a 1% difference upwards.
       Since you own a business, I’m really glad you are enlightened
       enough to not fall into this trap. Although I’d question what
       you’re doing to ensure a diverse workforce at all levels -
       including those who don’t traditionally apply for those roles
       but would be a great fit.
       Nothing you’ve said so far shows that you even understand that
       this is an issue but if somebody is not part of a demographic,
       it is very difficult to see the world through the eyes of
       somebody who is. As a result, your company’s product/service
       won’t necessarily appeal to that demographic and neither will
       your business as a workplace.
       You’d be missing out on customers and talent.
       #Post#: 27446--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
   DIR By: Quinten Poulsen
       Date: August 18, 2019, 7:16 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       That's an amusing story The Standard has there! It says -
       --- Quote ---
       > Put plainly, the gender pay gap is the average difference
       between how much men and women make for doing the same job.
       --- End Quote ---
       They then link to another story they wrote in the previous year
       containing similar tosh, although they do mention "according to
       the Office for National Statistics".
       In fact when you look at the ONS data they specify "it is not a
       measure of the difference in pay between men and women for doing
       the same job" and further state that their figures exclude
       overtime.
       I would suggest when you're trying to make this argument that
       you use reliable sources.
       #Post#: 27447--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
   DIR By: Yareet
       Date: August 18, 2019, 8:13 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Quinten Poulsen link ---
       >
       > That's an amusing story The Standard has there! It says -
       >
       > They then link to another story they wrote in the previous
       year containing similar tosh, although they do mention
       "according to the Office for National Statistics".
       >
       > In fact when you look at the ONS data they specify "it is not
       a measure of the difference in pay between men and women for
       doing the same job" and further state that their figures exclude
       overtime.
       >
       > I would suggest when you're trying to make this argument that
       you use reliable sources.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       So we’ll conveniently ignore “according to the World Economic
       Forum, there is no country in the world where women make as much
       as men for doing the same work.” shall we?
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