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#Post#: 27397--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
DIR By: Blucherquin
Date: August 17, 2019, 8:46 am
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--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> Blucher, I'm not your "mate", and doubt I ever will be.
>
> The only equality I actually want is equality of opportunity.
I've visited many clubs over the years, and have never seen a
sign denying entry to blacks or Irish. Care to point out which
ones have these signs?
>
> So less people of specific groups play rugby. Have you
considered that maybe they just don't want to?
>
> But since you appear to want to dredge up historical racism,
I'd best not introduce you to my partner. She's Swedish, and no
doubt you're fuming at what the Vikings did.
>
> I suggest you try joining the 21st century instead of
festering in your historic rage.
>
--- End Quote ---
You said that people who raised diversity has soured everything.
I just want to know when you think that happened that’s all -
and which of those efforts to tackle a lack of diversity you
find objectionable.
It has - of course - become popular to feign outrage and pretend
you’re unfairly being accused of racism, as a smokescreen to
answering a question. I very clearly didn’t accuse you of racism
or use the word at any point.
If you think only white rich people want to at rugby - that’s
fine. Maybe don’t tell Ugo. He seems to think it’s important.
But he’s just an England and Lions rugby player who is also
black so he’s probably not as qualified to comment as you.
Although you do agree with him because equality of opportunity
is exactly what he’s talking about.
#Post#: 27399--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
DIR By: Quinky
Date: August 17, 2019, 9:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Blucherquin link ---
>
> You said that people who raised diversity has soured
everything. I just want to know when you think that happened
that’s all.
>
> If you think only white rich people want to at rugby - that’s
fine. Maybe don’t tell Ugo.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think a lot of people want to play rugby, and do. I've met
people of all hues and levels of wealth playing the game. They
all had one thing in common. I've met plenty of Irish players
too. They must have missed your fabled sign. I've even
encountered teams where white players were in the minority. What
discrimination is at play there?
In many walks of life there are supposedly well meaning do
gooders / social justice warriors inspecting metrics and
bleating when they find their desired targets aren't being met.
An example is the griping about women supposedly earning less
than men, whilst ignoring the country's highest paid executive
being female. I could go on, but I suspect you may not be
receptive.
#Post#: 27400--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
DIR By: Yareet
Date: August 17, 2019, 9:17 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> An example is the griping about women supposedly earning less
than men, whilst ignoring the country's highest paid executive
being female.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes but the other 9 of the top 10 are men. Do you understand the
concept of an average?
#Post#: 27409--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
DIR By: Quinten Poulsen
Date: August 17, 2019, 10:30 am
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The BBC should run schools rugby in England.
#Post#: 27420--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
DIR By: Blucherquin
Date: August 17, 2019, 11:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> I think a lot of people want to play rugby, and do. I've met
people of all hues and levels of wealth playing the game. They
all had one thing in common. I've met plenty of Irish players
too. They must have missed your fabled sign. I've even
encountered teams where white players were in the minority. What
discrimination is at play there?
>
> In many walks of life there are supposedly well meaning do
gooders / social justice warriors inspecting metrics and
bleating when they find their desired targets aren't being met.
An example is the griping about women supposedly earning less
than men, whilst ignoring the country's highest paid executive
being female. I could go on, but I suspect you may not be
receptive.
>
--- End Quote ---
What discrimination are you taking about?
You raised discrimination. The thread wasn’t about
discrimination.
If you think everyone has a chance to play rugby - you’re wrong.
The facts don’t agree with you. You don’t appear to want to
change that, which is up you.
Maybe you don’t want people who don’t go to public school to
play - seems a bit off to me, but hey.
You raised discrimation, you raised your imagined social justice
warrior - I’m just asking for some examples of where you think
things that have changed are wrong.
Let’s stop pissing about with your misdirection about the irish
as if that was the heart of the point.
What would you like to undo that has ruined life so badly from
this list:
- the decriminalisation of homosexuality
- equal pay legislation for men and women
- legislation to make racially motivated crime an aggravating
factor in offences
- legislation banning discrimination against people because of
their race or gender
This isn’t what the thread was about nor was it Ugo’s point. But
you said that people that “bleat” have “soured” every part of
life.
So I’m asking you for things you’d like to change back that you
regard as now being soured - and I’ve offered you a few
examples.
You may have other examples of course - due to your equality of
opportunity to join this debate.
#Post#: 27433--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
DIR By: Quinky
Date: August 18, 2019, 3:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Blucherquin link ---
>
> What discrimination are you taking about?
>
> You raised discrimination. The thread wasn’t about
discrimination.
>
> If you think everyone has a chance to play rugby - you’re
wrong. The facts don’t agree with you. You don’t appear to want
to change that, which is up you.
>
> Maybe you don’t want people who don’t go to public school to
play - seems a bit off to me, but hey.
>
> You raised discrimation, you raised your imagined social
justice warrior - I’m just asking for some examples of where you
think things that have changed are wrong.
>
> Let’s stop pissing about with your misdirection about the
irish as if that was the heart of the point.
>
> What would you like to undo that has ruined life so badly from
this list:
>
> - the decriminalisation of homosexuality
> - equal pay legislation for men and women
> - legislation to make racially motivated crime an aggravating
factor in offences
> - legislation banning discrimination against people because of
their race or gender
>
> This isn’t what the thread was about nor was it Ugo’s point.
But you said that people that “bleat” have “soured” every part
of life.
>
> So I’m asking you for things you’d like to change back that
you regard as now being soured - and I’ve offered you a few
examples.
>
> You may have other examples of course - due to your equality
of opportunity to join this debate.
>
--- End Quote ---
Tell me of any rugby club in the UK that rejects anyone who
wants to play rugby. Anyone can play if they want to.
The only thing I want to change is people like you looking for
some kind of perceived wrong, based on overly simplified
metrics.
Have you found the rugby club that rejects blacks and Irish yet?
Or have you finally left the 1970s. Be quick, the Viking may
slay me if I don't get a move on.
#Post#: 27434--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
DIR By: Quinky
Date: August 18, 2019, 3:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> Yes but the other 9 of the top 10 are men. Do you understand
the concept of an average?
>
--- End Quote ---
You may want to be average. I don't.
Do you understand the concept of people being paid what they're
worth?
#Post#: 27439--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
DIR By: Yareet
Date: August 18, 2019, 4:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
>
> Do you understand the concept of people being paid what
they're worth?
>
--- End Quote ---
I do. And it doesn’t happen.
Or more accurately certain demographics (basically white men)
are paid more than others (women, BAME) for doing the same job.
HTML https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/equal-pay-day-2017-gender-pay-gap-uk-a3688011.html
A quick Google search brings up a range of articles for a
subject you claim doesn’t exist all of which point to men being
paid more than women for the same job and level of experience -
ranging from a 1% difference upwards.
Since you own a business, I’m really glad you are enlightened
enough to not fall into this trap. Although I’d question what
you’re doing to ensure a diverse workforce at all levels -
including those who don’t traditionally apply for those roles
but would be a great fit.
Nothing you’ve said so far shows that you even understand that
this is an issue but if somebody is not part of a demographic,
it is very difficult to see the world through the eyes of
somebody who is. As a result, your company’s product/service
won’t necessarily appeal to that demographic and neither will
your business as a workplace.
You’d be missing out on customers and talent.
#Post#: 27446--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
DIR By: Quinten Poulsen
Date: August 18, 2019, 7:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
That's an amusing story The Standard has there! It says -
--- Quote ---
> Put plainly, the gender pay gap is the average difference
between how much men and women make for doing the same job.
--- End Quote ---
They then link to another story they wrote in the previous year
containing similar tosh, although they do mention "according to
the Office for National Statistics".
In fact when you look at the ONS data they specify "it is not a
measure of the difference in pay between men and women for doing
the same job" and further state that their figures exclude
overtime.
I would suggest when you're trying to make this argument that
you use reliable sources.
#Post#: 27447--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
DIR By: Yareet
Date: August 18, 2019, 8:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinten Poulsen link ---
>
> That's an amusing story The Standard has there! It says -
>
> They then link to another story they wrote in the previous
year containing similar tosh, although they do mention
"according to the Office for National Statistics".
>
> In fact when you look at the ONS data they specify "it is not
a measure of the difference in pay between men and women for
doing the same job" and further state that their figures exclude
overtime.
>
> I would suggest when you're trying to make this argument that
you use reliable sources.
>
--- End Quote ---
So we’ll conveniently ignore “according to the World Economic
Forum, there is no country in the world where women make as much
as men for doing the same work.” shall we?
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