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#Post#: 27286--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup squad - no Brown or Marchant
DIR By: Blucherquin
Date: August 14, 2019, 9:31 am
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--- Quote from: A222Quin link ---
>
> But the Curries have been full time in the Sale Academy
haven’t they? Dombrandt was just playing uni level.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes quite, there are plenty of players his age -- but he's been
playing uni rugby until only 12 months ago.
#Post#: 27295--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup squad - no Brown or Marchant
DIR By: KiltedQuin
Date: August 14, 2019, 5:23 pm
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--- Quote from: A222Quin link ---
>
> But the Curries have been full time in the Sale Academy
haven’t they? Dombrandt was just playing uni level.
>
--- End Quote ---
Remember though, the Uni Dombrandt was playing for didn't jus
tplay Uni and College rugby but was in the Welsh Premiership.
So was probably a higher level and certainly a lot tougher than
English Premiership Academy or A team. He has transitioned
wellat Gallagher Premiership level and was immense in the Baa
Baas game.
#Post#: 27298--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup squad - no Brown or Marchant
DIR By: Everyone’s a Quinner
Date: August 14, 2019, 7:58 pm
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--- Quote from: T-Bone link ---
>
> 6 back three players and no full back. Seems odd.
>
> On the whole it's as expected. We look very strong in some
positions, but less so in others, and a RWC squad should not
contain average premiership players.
>
> My main gripe is that some of the players in there have very
little experience when Jones could have given them game time.
It's fair enough having bolters who will understandly have
little experience but in other positions, most glaringly at 9,
Jones has had ample time to give these guys some decent
experience
>
--- End Quote ---
Agree with all you say. Very worrying going into the World Cup
without an out and out or solid test level fullback. Hard to
believe that even though the likes of Brown, Care and Robshaw
have been heavily involved with or including in the England
Squad for such a long time that they all have respectively only
attended one World Cup for England. I still believe they all had
this one in them for their last one, especially Brown
#Post#: 27302--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup squad - no Brown or Marchant
DIR By: Blucherquin
Date: August 15, 2019, 3:09 am
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I'm back to getting what Jones is doing after a period of doubt.
Can't see why you'd need Robshaw, he's got a lot of young
destructive talent in those positions that offer more now.
Again on Brownie, yes there is a risk of not having a
traditional 15, but I've sat at HQ now three times watching Daly
and - yes - his positioning for that try wasn't good. But he
does offer so much going foward. And both May in the autumn and
Watson on Sunday were strong under the high ball.
Care, for me, is the one. Feels more like something didn't fit
that wasn't just his playing style - sad for him if true or that
they couldn't overcome whatever it was. As we know he does have
a tendency to try too much under pressure, the arm flapping and
complaining stuff that drives a lot of us mad.....maybe it's
that.
But - that said - having watched the game back on TV, I'm no
longer as down on Heinz as I was watching in the stands.
#Post#: 27309--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup squad - no Brown or Marchant
DIR By: ChequeredJersey
Date: August 15, 2019, 4:01 am
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I must be missing something because I don't think Daly offers
much and certainly not more than Mike going forward from FB
I thought he would, was certain it would be his best position,
but he's both weak defensively AND disappointing in attack,
where he was better on the wing and at 13 for Wasps.
#Post#: 27313--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup squad - no Brown or Marchant
DIR By: poorfour
Date: August 15, 2019, 4:42 am
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I'd say that Daly offers more variety and vision in attack than
Mike - but considerably more vulnerability in defence. I think
that unless Watson or McConnochie steps up to handling the high
balls and organising the back three pendulum, we will continue
to concede tries that Mike would have stopped.
The case for Care is very simple, both in terms of why he's been
dropped and why he shouldn't have been: I can't think of another
EQP who is more able to come into a game late in the day and
change its course. He isn't capable of playing the game that
Eddie wants in the first 50 minutes, which is why he's been
dropped. But if you need to create a try from nothing in the
dying minutes, Care can do that and I don't see who else can.
The case for Robshaw is the most difficult one. There are
younger and faster flankers in the squad who have performed
well, and I think Curry and Wilson deserve their places. Ludlam
and Underhill are also very promising but we have yet to see
them perform consistently (and in Underhill's case, stay fit)
over an extended series of competitive internationals. Shields I
just don't see the point of, but whatever it is it's moot. The
unique thing that Robshaw brings is the ability to be in the
right place at the right time doing the right thing, time and
time and time again.
The first Welsh try was a good illustration of what England miss
by not taking these three. I think Robshaw would have been alert
enough to the wheel (and being illegally bound in by the Welsh
pack) to have at least slowed the move down and made it obvious
he was being obstructed. Care might still have been beaten for
pace but would have made it harder than Heinz did.
And if Brown had been on the pitch he would have been in the
right position, forced Davies to take the outside line and
probably driven him into touch. I would even go so far as to say
that Wales might not even have tried the move against Brown; a
big factor would have been that they thought they could exploit
Daly's positioning, and they were right.
#Post#: 27318--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup squad - no Brown or Marchant
DIR By: Blucherquin
Date: August 15, 2019, 4:57 am
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And yet - they were all part of a side that self destructed in
2015 and part of a side that went backwards after a strong start
under Jones and felt stale.
Love them all but barring Care (mainly because we’ve only just
chosen his replacement with 3 matches to go - if one of the
others had established themselves I’d feel less aggrieved on his
behalf) I feel no particular need to claim they should be
playing for England now.
#Post#: 27323--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup squad - no Brown or Marchant
DIR By: TomBuckQuin
Date: August 15, 2019, 6:27 am
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It's funny, I feel the opposite.
Aggrieved for Brownie, who's consistently proven the doubters
wrong and always stood up, even when the rest of the side were
cowering.
Care had enough chances and proved that he just wasn't reliable
in an England shirt. Too many costly errors - the moments of
brilliance didn't outweigh them.
In Robshaw's case, it feels like more of a tidy succession story
- Curry et al have come through and taken on the baton and
evidently are the rightful heirs.
But, like you, I love all 3 in a Quins shirt. Selfishly, very
good news for us that it seems that's what they'll be wearing
when next season kicks off.
#Post#: 27325--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup squad - no Brown or Marchant
DIR By: DOK
Date: August 15, 2019, 6:58 am
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From the end of Ugo's piece in another thread
"Finally, a word for those players who just missed out. They can
go into mourning for a week or two, or even longer if that is
what they want to do, but ultimately that will not help. I
narrowly missed out in 2011 and, speaking from experience, I
would say you have to get yourself ready for if and when that
phone call comes. It may never come – it didn’t for me because
there wasn’t an injury – but I used the anger at missing out as
motivation to prove people wrong. Myself, Chris Robshaw and
Danny Care were all overlooked for that tournament but we hit
the ground running at the start of the season and ended up as
Premiership champions. It can be a driving force if you use the
disappointment in the right way."
#Post#: 27330--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup squad - no Brown or Marchant
DIR By: ChequeredJersey
Date: August 15, 2019, 8:15 am
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fair enough re 2015, though one would argue that it's better to
have players who have learnt that lesson, and indeed several key
current England players were 2015 RWC players found wanting in
the end.
I think it's very unfair to say they were part of a team that
fell backwards from a good start under Jones. The deterioration
in performance as far as I can tell has lined up with 2 of those
three being injured and then deselected, as well as Danny being
misused.
See 2017 6N- lost one match, no Robshaw (and a baaaad backrow).
2018 6N, no Brown in 2 of the losses, Robshaw partnering a lock
again in the other loss. 2019, no Robshaw and Brown throughout
and drew one and lost one conceding tries I think it isn't
unreasonable to suggest both those players would have prevented
(certainly the Wales loss).
In the AIs - 2018 was ok but lost to the ABs when we could have
won and struggled Vs SA.
2017 - they were in the squads and England looked great
admittedly not playing the ABs.
2016-both were key in a dominant series where we blew away
Argentina, Aus and SA
So I can't agree that they have been s part of a struggling
Jones team, just a part of the good Jones team before that 2018
6N where he weirdly changed his approach despite success
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