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#Post#: 26713--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harlequins Ladies Renamed Harlequins Women
DIR By: Blucherquin
Date: July 30, 2019, 8:17 am
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--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> Can't see much difference, personally. Also can't see how it's
going to revolutionise the game.
>
--- End Quote ---
Can't find anywhere that it says it's going to revolutionise the
game.
Ladies is generally felt to be old fashioned and suggestive of
being a bit 'weak and vunlnerable' (a la Little Britain) as
opposed to just another team. Plenty of female sports stars say
they don't particularly mind but with a free choice women is
better.
You don't say 'gentleman's', you say 'men's', so 'women's' seems
a more modern fit. There's no more or less to it than that.
Friends of my wife were hacked off when their school had
'football' for the boys and 'girls football' for their daughters
- similar thing. A name isn't going to revolutionise anything
but it's a start.
#Post#: 26714--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harlequins Ladies Renamed Harlequins Women
DIR By: Quinky
Date: July 30, 2019, 8:23 am
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--- Quote from: Blucherquin link ---
>
> Can't find anywhere that it says it's going to revolutionise
the game.
>
> Ladies is generally felt to be old fashioned and suggestive of
being a bit 'weak and vunlnerable' (a la Little Britain) as
opposed to just another team. Plenty of female sports stars say
they don't particularly mind but with a free choice women is
better.
>
> You don't say 'gentleman's', you say 'men's', so 'women's'
seems a more modern fit. There's no more or less to it than
that.
>
> Friends of my wife were hacked off when their school had
'football' for the boys and 'girls football' for their daughters
- similar thing. A name isn't going to revolutionise anything
but it's a start.
>
--- End Quote ---
What sort of start is it? A start to what?
I don't say "men's" either. I just say "rugby". I thought the
Quins veterans team (if they still have one) were called the
Harlequins Gentlemen though?
As I said, it doesn't seem to make a huge difference. But if it
makes the players feel better about themselves, that's
something. As for perception, I can't speak for anyone else, but
"ladies" isn't something I see as symbolising weakness or
vulnerability.
#Post#: 26719--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harlequins Ladies Renamed Harlequins Women
DIR By: Yareet
Date: July 30, 2019, 9:28 am
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--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> I thought the Quins veterans team (if they still have one)
were called the Harlequins Gentlemen though?
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes they do and yes they are
#Post#: 26728--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harlequins Ladies Renamed Harlequins Women
DIR By: Monte
Date: July 30, 2019, 11:39 am
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Hooray excellent decision
#Post#: 26733--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harlequins Ladies Renamed Harlequins Women
DIR By: Blucherquin
Date: July 30, 2019, 2:07 pm
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--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> What sort of start is it? A start to what?
>
--- End Quote ---
It’s a start to not being viewed or referred to differently from
men’s sport,
Women in professional sport don’t need you to show up if you
don’t want to - but they’d quite like to be treated like any
other professional sport.
Women’s rugby, men’s rugby.
You can like or hate both, but they’re just two sports.
#Post#: 26738--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harlequins Ladies Renamed Harlequins Women
DIR By: Quinky
Date: July 30, 2019, 3:54 pm
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I've seen some great women's rugby. But it's a long way from
being viewed as on a par with men's rugby. Same in many sports.
If it were equal, there would be mixed teams, played to the same
rules and tolerances.
I still don't get how changing the name from ladies to women
makes any difference though.
#Post#: 26740--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harlequins Ladies Renamed Harlequins Women
DIR By: Blucherquin
Date: July 30, 2019, 4:11 pm
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--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> I've seen some great women's rugby. But it's a long way from
being viewed as on a par with men's rugby. Same in many sports.
If it were equal, there would be mixed teams, played to the same
rules and tolerances.
>
> I still don't get how changing the name from ladies to women
makes any difference though.
>
--- End Quote ---
That isn’t the definition of equality they’re working towards..
Women’s sport isn’t competing to be regarded as “on a par” in
the way you mean.
They don’t want to play in mixed teams.
They want their sport to be treated with the same respect as any
other.
It doesn’t mean you have to like women’s rugby, just regard it
as a sport in its own right.
(as a side note and as I’ve endlessly pointed out the reason big
companies are promoting it is that it’s a massive area for
revenue growth that isn’t rivalled in any way in the already
saturated existing leisure industry. This is just a fact -
supported by endless research and data and cold hard cash.)
#Post#: 26746--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harlequins Ladies Renamed Harlequins Women
DIR By: Quinky
Date: July 31, 2019, 2:15 am
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--- Quote from: Blucherquin link ---
>
> That isn’t the definition of equality they’re working
towards..
>
> Women’s sport isn’t competing to be regarded as “on a par” in
the way you mean.
>
> They don’t want to play in mixed teams.
>
> They want their sport to be treated with the same respect as
any other.
>
> It doesn’t mean you have to like women’s rugby, just regard it
as a sport in its own right.
>
> (as a side note and as I’ve endlessly pointed out the reason
big companies are promoting it is that it’s a massive area for
revenue growth that isn’t rivalled in any way in the already
saturated existing leisure industry. This is just a fact -
supported by endless research and data and cold hard cash.)
>
--- End Quote ---
Respect is earned. I respect women and men who step onto a rugby
field. It's a hard game.
Changing a word has no impact on that.
#Post#: 26747--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harlequins Ladies Renamed Harlequins Women
DIR By: DOK
Date: July 31, 2019, 2:25 am
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Harlequins men and Harlequins women sounds better than
Harlequins men and Harlequins ladies.
The latter still sounds a bit condescending to me, and as people
have said, it shouldn't.
If we could have had Harlequins gentlemen and Harlequins ladies,
I'd have gone with that as us playing on the glorious past, been
round since 1866, type of thing.
#Post#: 26750--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harlequins Ladies Renamed Harlequins Women
DIR By: Blucherquin
Date: July 31, 2019, 2:48 am
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--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> Respect is earned. I respect women and men who step onto a
rugby field. It's a hard game.
>
> Changing a word has no impact on that.
>
--- End Quote ---
It’s great you respect them, but lots of people don’t - mainly
people who think that women’s sport isn’t as “good” as men’s
because it’s different.
Indeed lots of professional sportswomen acknowledge that some of
their sports do need development in skills and in that way
aren’t yet as “good” - look at the football World Cup for
example.
Watching the US team was like watching any decent football team
of any gender - some of the other nations were like watching
lower league football.
Which comes down to participation, finance, social factors etc
all changing or being at different points in the process of
change. We’re still a way off the Saudi women’s team showing up,
for example. (Worth bearing in mind the FA banned women’s
football in 1921 and didn’t allow it back until 1969, and didn’t
create an actual FA run league until 1993).
I believe something like half the registered female football
players in the world are in the US - and their success will
entourage more women to take up sport etc etc.
All of which is a bit of an aside - but to say that I’ve done a
reasonable amount of work in this field, and a word can make a
big difference to perception. And that change in perception is
all part of creating the space to grow the sport.
It may not to you, which is fine (genuinely not being
combative), but it might to a girl thinking about if she can
have a career in professional sport.
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