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#Post#: 25295--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gatland is Lions Coach
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: June 16, 2019, 3:28 am
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Well using a Ryder Cup type system would have to be weighted in
favour of those poor Irish players who never seem to get to play
in their League.
#Post#: 25298--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gatland is Lions Coach
DIR By: Yareet
Date: June 16, 2019, 4:52 am
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--- Quote from: Banstead Quin link ---
>
> It's the whole system of how the squad is picked that's wrong
for me. 'Knowing what a player can do for the squad' doesn't
mean that they are the best player in that position or that they
deserve to be there. I see the Lions as the pinnacle of a
players career and allowing a coach to pick his buddies just
because he knows them is wrong.
>
> In 1997, Ian McGeechan didn't take all Scots and put together
a squad that had balance but the best players in each position,
along with some excellent wildcards, e.g. John Bentley. Since
then, it's been national coaches taking out of form/injured
players who they 'know' and the results have been mixed and that
includes Sir Clive Woodward, just to show I'm not being
jingoistic.
>
> The real test for a coach would be a system similar to the
Ryder Cup selection where a points system for players guarantees
that the top 2 in each position tour along with extra from the
3rd, 4th or 5th place players and 5 wildcards. There are enough
stats available to enable this, with a weighting depending on
the standard of competition you play in week in, week out. That
way a player earns his place not given it because he plays for
the coach at national level.
>
> Of course if you guys believe it was right that Robshaw didn't
tour in 2013 (and I'm sure other teams have similar players) or
that Marler shouldn't have started a test match in 2017 then i'm
happy for you to shout me down. It is all about opinion, after
all.
>
--- End Quote ---
I’m not saying I agree that it’s the best system; just that
there is an argument for it.
For reference, the 1997 tour was a week longer than the 2017
tour. A week longer to build partnerships and learn calls. If
you have less time, shortcuts are understandable.
I’d also argue that the stats don’t show who will make the best
team.
According to most attacking stats (metres made, tries scored,
points scored, line breaks, etc) I’d imagine England had a much
better Six Nations than Wales.
Stats don’t even really show who the best player is. Otherwise
there’d never be any argument about Player of the Season awards.
#Post#: 25311--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gatland is Lions Coach
DIR By: Banstead Quin
Date: June 16, 2019, 1:41 pm
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I don't disagree Yareet but at least stats are fact and can't be
refuted, else it is all just about opinion which means that the
current system stays as is, which I think is wrong. It would
force those 'poor Irish players' to play more regularly in their
league which would bring the standard up and give them better
chance, as the rest of the league would have to improve to match
them so a lower weighting initially but a it's in their hands.
It would also stop international coaches playing players out of
position a'la Daly as he wouldn't score as highly as Brown,
Hogg, Goode etc as a Full Back so would want to be included as a
centre. Someone like Eddie Jones might kick off initially but
once players dig in, he'd have no choice. Plus, if the player
was covering an injury crisis in a different position, they'd
still be scoring points.
Maybe not perfect but as you say, if it starts a conversation
then that can only be good.
#Post#: 25312--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gatland is Lions Coach
DIR By: Yareet
Date: June 16, 2019, 2:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Banstead Quin link ---
>
> I don't disagree Yareet but at least stats are fact and can't
be refuted, else it is all just about opinion which means that
the current system stays as is, which I think is wrong. It would
force those 'poor Irish players' to play more regularly in their
league which would bring the standard up and give them better
chance, as the rest of the league would have to improve to match
them so a lower weighting initially but a it's in their hands.
>
> It would also stop international coaches playing players out
of position a'la Daly as he wouldn't score as highly as Brown,
Hogg, Goode etc as a Full Back so would want to be included as a
centre. Someone like Eddie Jones might kick off initially but
once players dig in, he'd have no choice. Plus, if the player
was covering an injury crisis in a different position, they'd
still be scoring points.
>
> Maybe not perfect but as you say, if it starts a conversation
then that can only be good.
>
--- End Quote ---
Of course stats can be refuted! One of the key skills of a coach
(or any manager) is IMO being able to get more out of the team
than the sum of the parts.
Regarding players playing out of position, on another thread
somebody was advocating Dombrandt playing at second row. Why
would he do that if it would negatively impact his selection?
Why would Robshaw train at 8 “just in case” as he did a few
months ago? Why would Sinckler move from centre to prop?
Particularly for touring sides (be it Lions, World Cup or
whatever), it is, I believe, key to have players who can cover
multiple positions. Basing the selection on stats prevents that
ever happening.
Ford and Farrell at 10/12 won England a grand slam. Wilson at 8
gave England 3/4 in the AIs. Maro/Lawes at 6. Sale playing both
Curry twins on the flank and Ross (a 6) at 8. There are numerous
examples.
I’m also hopeful that Eddie has played the long game at 15.
Better to try Daly there in competitive but ultimately less
meaningful games rather than needing to throw him into a World
Cup knock out game.
#Post#: 25335--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gatland is Lions Coach
DIR By: Blucherquin
Date: June 17, 2019, 11:52 pm
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Anyway at the moment there’s v little chance of England players
making the cut coz PRL has refused to move the final - which is
a week before the first test.
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