DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
ComeAllWithin (Harlequins Rugby)
HTML https://comeallwithin.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: ComeAllWithin Board
*****************************************************
#Post#: 25675--------------------------------------------------
Re: My Wish List
DIR By: Bolly-Quin
Date: June 27, 2019, 11:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DOK link ---
> I just don't see a reliable, scientific, repeatable method of
measuring whether a pass is forward...
>
--- End Quote ---
There is - a hawk-eye variant would easy to set up.
#Post#: 25676--------------------------------------------------
Re: My Wish List
DIR By: Fearless Fred
Date: June 27, 2019, 12:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Bolly-Quin link ---
>
> There is - a hawk-eye variant would easy to set up.
>
--- End Quote ---
It would need to be a much more complex system, though. Hawkeye
and the DRS in cricket are set up on pre-defined lines on the
pitch, be they the wickets or the line markings on the tennis
court. Any system for use on a Rugby pitch must be able to
extrapolate the position, direction and speed of not just the
ball but the two players involved in the pass as well,
irrespective of where they are on the pitch or where the cameras
are.
#Post#: 25677--------------------------------------------------
Re: My Wish List
DIR By: Blucherquin
Date: June 27, 2019, 3:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Bolly-Quin link ---
>
> There is - a hawk-eye variant would easy to set up.
>
--- End Quote ---
It really wouldn’t. Even if it was possible which it isn’t, it
would require every rugby ground in the Premiership to be able
to pay for it - which they couldn’t.
It is not practical in any way.
#Post#: 25680--------------------------------------------------
Re: My Wish List
DIR By: Quinky
Date: June 27, 2019, 5:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Brown Bottle link ---
>
> Don't need GPS for that, the overhead camera will do. But
since a forward pass isn't judged relative to the pitch it would
be pointless anyway.
>
--- End Quote ---
There needs to be a point to relate to.
#Post#: 25689--------------------------------------------------
Re: My Wish List
DIR By: Bolly-Quin
Date: June 28, 2019, 7:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Blucherquin link ---
>
> It really wouldn’t. Even if it was possible which it isn’t, it
would require every rugby ground in the Premiership to be able
to pay for it - which they couldn’t.
>
> It is not practical in any way.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you for your definitive response - I didn't realise that
you might have worked in the ball/small object tracking business
(and many others too, it seems).
Whilst I agree that it may well be costly (I hadn't thought it
would be anything else, nor did I suggest that it would be
cheap), I do believe that the ball tracking technology could be
applied to a rugby ball. If 6 cameras (as some have suggested
are used in cricket) around a full scale cricket pitch can track
a much smaller and faster cricket ball then they could track a
rugby ball with the "lines" required superimposed on the pitch
using the try, 22m, 10m and halfway lines as
controls/calibration lines and the the rest interpolated and
shown on the pitch as they show the line of scrimmage or "gain
line" in US Football and rugby.
Of course, tracking a rugby ball would be easier than Brexit, or
should this comment be on the other board?
;)
#Post#: 25690--------------------------------------------------
Re: My Wish List
DIR By: Bolly-Quin
Date: June 28, 2019, 7:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Fearless Fred link ---
>
> It would need to be a much more complex system, though.
Hawkeye and the DRS in cricket are set up on pre-defined lines
on the pitch, be they the wickets or the line markings on the
tennis court. Any system for use on a Rugby pitch must be able
to extrapolate the position, direction and speed of not just the
ball but the two players involved in the pass as well,
irrespective of where they are on the pitch or where the cameras
are.
>
--- End Quote ---
Just passer and ball - the position of the receiver (providing
he is onside) is surely moot if the definition of a forward pass
is one where the ball travels toward the opposing try line (cf
BB, above) once leaving the passers hands...
#Post#: 25703--------------------------------------------------
Re: My Wish List
DIR By: Blucherquin
Date: June 29, 2019, 1:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Bolly-Quin link ---
>
> Thank you for your definitive response - I didn't realise that
you might have worked in the ball/small object tracking business
(and many others too, it seems).
>
> Whilst I agree that it may well be costly (I hadn't thought it
would be anything else, nor did I suggest that it would be
cheap), I do believe that the ball tracking technology could be
applied to a rugby ball. If 6 cameras (as some have suggested
are used in cricket) around a full scale cricket pitch can track
a much smaller and faster cricket ball then they could track a
rugby ball with the "lines" required superimposed on the pitch
using the try, 22m, 10m and halfway lines as
controls/calibration lines and the the rest interpolated and
shown on the pitch as they show the line of scrimmage or "gain
line" in US Football and rugby.
>
> Of course, tracking a rugby ball would be easier than Brexit,
or should this comment be on the other board?
>
> ;)
>
--- End Quote ---
(Yeah apparently you can’t make jokes about Brexit....)
Anyway, the reason I was definitive is...
Hawkeye does two different things - ball tracking or what we
could call “camera angle processing”
Ball tracking is used for cricket, tennis and goal line
technology. It can be used there because you have a space
defined by lines where what the computer is recreating is the
ball’s path through that space and its relationship with those
lines.
For football you need 7 cameras pointing at the goal, for
example.
In cricket it’s not the whole pitch, it’s the wicket. The
cameras and computer can only recreate the flight of the ball
from the bowler past the batsman - relative to the lines of the
crease and the wicket (a known fixed size and height etc)
The rest of “VAR” (as now used in football) is simply what we
already have in rugby, the ability to process all the broadcast
camera angles (and yes impose lines to mark the “plane” to check
for offside).
So we could do that now - and we do - and we just have these
arguments. It’s fine for showing a forward pass when the player
receiving the ball starts in front of the passer (like for
offsides in foofbtall) but that’s not the tricky bit.
Ball tracking would require a vast camera system and computing -
the ball trajectory is unpredictable and across a huge undefined
space (other than the few lines you mention)
Cricket, tennis, someone kicking a ball at a goal - you’re
tracking a small area and you know where the ball is going
(bowler to batsman, one end of the court to the other, towards
the goal).
#Post#: 25708--------------------------------------------------
Re: My Wish List
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: June 29, 2019, 6:49 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> There needs to be a point to relate to.
>
--- End Quote ---
And it isn't the pitch.
#Post#: 25714--------------------------------------------------
Re: My Wish List
DIR By: Quinky
Date: June 29, 2019, 4:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Brown Bottle link ---
>
> And it isn't the pitch.
>
--- End Quote ---
The lines are on the pitch.
#Post#: 25716--------------------------------------------------
Re: My Wish List
DIR By: Blucherquin
Date: June 30, 2019, 2:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> The lines are on the pitch.
>
--- End Quote ---
Football needs 7 cameras to judge if a ball passed an imaginary
vertical plane in the small fixed area of a goal.
Apply that to the size of an entire rugby pitch - but also where
you can’t predict the direction the ball is travelling.
*****************************************************
Page 8 of 13
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page