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#Post#: 2038--------------------------------------------------
Re: Thats the coaching sorted then
DIR By: TomBuckQuin
Date: July 29, 2018, 10:34 am
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HTML https://media.giphy.com/media/ToMjGpjpXMFPshSYGLm/giphy.gif
#Post#: 2039--------------------------------------------------
Re: Thats the coaching sorted then
DIR By: Quaking Quin
Date: July 29, 2018, 11:26 am
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Blucherquin - you clearly don't.
We agree players contracts are for 2 or 3 years so it takes that
time for a DoR to change an entire squad. What I said was that
Gustard and his team do not have that luxury. If Quins cannot
improve on last season's 10th position they would obviously be
relegation fodder.
Realistically, Gustard's immediate challenge in his first season
is to get the existing squad working effectively as a team, to
avoid relegation, get as high up the table as possible (eg. back
to 7th or 8th) and plan long term from a strong base.
On paper Quins have a talented group of players who we all agree
have collectively under-performed for a number of years.
Nonetheless, Quins will have to start the new season well,
otherwise the loss of confidence from last season will persist
and be impossible to break without a major mid-season
recruitment drive.
No - I am not giving Gustard until the end of November.
Please read in context - I said it would be a "guide" to the way
the rest of the season is likely to pan out, particularly in
relation to the results of the other bottom 6 clubs from
2017/18. Who IMHO have (on paper) all recruited better than
Quins in addressing weaknesses in their squads.
Gustard has chosen not to recruit, others still are - Sale have
recruited Ashton since Gustard was appointed and are still
looking for two more forwards before the season starts
(according to TRP).
Lots of players will be available by the end November from SH
Super Rugby. My guess is Gustard will wait until then to
strengthen where necessary having had a good look at the current
Quins squad in action.
#Post#: 2041--------------------------------------------------
Re: Thats the coaching sorted then
DIR By: NevsLeftBoot
Date: July 29, 2018, 12:34 pm
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SO many things to comment on.
1) Coach needs time - new team needs time - that is obvious.
2) Where is this talented squad i keep hearing about? Some
blokes who were good 6 years ago, some blokes who were going to
be the NEXT BIG THING, but have not ever been?
3) PG has to do more than coach this group into a cohesive unit
- he also has to start planning for the future, DC, Brown,
Robshaw, Horwill need replacing and one of the biggest issues at
Quins in the last 6 years has been big players leaving and not
being adequately replaced.
4) I don't care what he spouts at the end of the game, I don't
care what spin he puts on it - that is his job to do what he
sees fit in the media - it is not the coaches job to wash the
clubs dirty laundry in public.
Whether people like it or not - i would expect he has three jobs
this season.
1) don't get relegated
2) Sort out a style of play that can be built upon (changing
this will be hard)
3) Recruitment and retention
Any thing else will be a bonus.
I expect this season to painful, changing the clubs fortunes is
going to be hard, it will take time and there will be lots of
false dawns - PG has never done any of this before.
#Post#: 2044--------------------------------------------------
Re: Thats the coaching sorted then
DIR By: TomBuckQuin
Date: July 29, 2018, 1:41 pm
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I don't agree that it has to be that hard. Look at what
Ackermann managed at Gloucester, Dean Richards at Newcastle.
Maybe they're anomalies but it doesn't have to be "it will take
a couple/few years". Are you really telling me you wouldn't be
disappointed if we didn't make top 6 with the group of players
we have? (Yes, I know, on paper). Because I would be
disappointed with anything less than that.
Our most likely first 15 (and even 23) when fit and with someone
squeezing form out of them matches up to most other sides on any
given day. And that's what we missed in recent years - the
respected management figure ensuring in no uncertain terms that
they all work their hind legs off for each other. If Paul
Gustard is that man then surely we can expect not to be in the
bottom half of the table.
#Post#: 2045--------------------------------------------------
Re: Thats the coaching sorted then
DIR By: poorfour
Date: July 29, 2018, 2:02 pm
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In terms of the squad, I think there are three elements to it:
quality, injuries and tactics.
Last year, we clearly had the tactics (and the training to go
with them) badly wrong. We can hope that Gustard has learned
from his time with Eddie how to make a rapid change in tactics.
Squad quality is actually higher than I can remember. With
everyone fit, we can field a XXIII that has 14 internationals
(Marler, Elia, Sinckler, Horwill, Robshaw, Clifford, Bothma,
Care, Saili, Tapuai, Visser, Brown, Collier, Luamanu) and
several others who are expected to get international recognition
before long (Smith, Marchant, Boyce, possibly Baby Chis).
We will need to replace Horwill, Robshaw, Care and Brown,
probably by the end of 2019-20. Between Clifford, Wallace, Baby
Chis, Waters and Morris we have the latter three fairly well
covered; the open question is where our next lot of locks are
coming from. We don’t know whether Dombrandt and Symonds will
step up, but Merrick has shown a lot of potential.
The big issue is injuries. We don’t seem to be able to keep the
same hooker fit from week to week, let alone the same team.
Clifford, Bothma, Wallace, Saili, Collier, Luamanu, Marchant,
Baby Chis, Big Chis, Buchanan... it would almost be easier to
list the players who have stayed fit than those who haven’t.
We’ve struggled with a long sicklist and in particular squad
continuity since 2012. I don’t know why. We’ve also managed to
recruit a lot of players who’ve then spent most of their Quins
careers on the treatment table. I don’t know why that is. We’ve
certainly managed to rehabilitate players in the past - Ollie
Kohn was, IIRC, recovering from a very bad knee injury when we
recruited him and went on to be a great player for us.
I don’t have a great sense of whether other teams struggle the
way we do; it doesn’t feel that way. I suspect our injury
problems the last few seasons have been so deep that we’ve been
forced into rushing players back and having them get injured so
the cycle begins all over again.
I don’t know if Gustard (or perhaps more likely Millard) can do
anything about that - but I suspect that that’s the key problem
to fix and we are good enough to compete if we can do that. (But
it’s worth noting that in the GP “compete” means exactly that:
there are no pushovers any more).
#Post#: 2051--------------------------------------------------
Re: Thats the coaching sorted then
DIR By: Rocker
Date: July 29, 2018, 4:18 pm
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2012 we mostly seemed to keep the same squad fit and together
but in recent seasons and last season more than ever we seemed
to not be put a fit team together at all. I think it has to be
the key to our success or failure this season. I have a feeling
we did suffer more than most.
#Post#: 2055--------------------------------------------------
Re: Thats the coaching sorted then
DIR By: Quinten Poulsen
Date: July 29, 2018, 4:33 pm
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--- Quote ---
> Dean Richards at Newcastle.
--- End Quote ---
After promotion they finished 11th, 11th, 11th, 8th and then 4th
last season.
#Post#: 2058--------------------------------------------------
Re: Thats the coaching sorted then
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: July 29, 2018, 6:46 pm
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Ackermann wasn't an unqualified success. They improved by two
league positions, but still have the same mental frailties and a
much worse defence than in the previous season. They've been
mid/lower-mid-table forever, so 7th doesn't represent a massive
jump.
#Post#: 2063--------------------------------------------------
Re: Thats the coaching sorted then
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: July 30, 2018, 4:24 am
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It takes 3 years to CHANGE a squad, not to get it playing
properly. Do people honestly think that we should wait 3 years
for results?
#Post#: 2068--------------------------------------------------
Re: Thats the coaching sorted then
DIR By: Blucherquin
Date: July 30, 2018, 5:17 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: NevsLeftBoot link ---
>
> SO many things to comment on.
>
> 1) Coach needs time - new team needs time - that is obvious.
>
> 2) Where is this talented squad i keep hearing about? Some
blokes who were good 6 years ago, some blokes who were going to
be the NEXT BIG THING, but have not ever been?
>
> 3) PG has to do more than coach this group into a cohesive
unit - he also has to start planning for the future, DC, Brown,
Robshaw, Horwill need replacing and one of the biggest issues at
Quins in the last 6 years has been big players leaving and not
being adequately replaced.
>
> 4) I don't care what he spouts at the end of the game, I don't
care what spin he puts on it - that is his job to do what he
sees fit in the media - it is not the coaches job to wash the
clubs dirty laundry in public.
>
> Whether people like it or not - i would expect he has three
jobs this season.
> 1) don't get relegated
> 2) Sort out a style of play that can be built upon (changing
this will be hard)
> 3) Recruitment and retention
>
> Any thing else will be a bonus.
>
> I expect this season to painful, changing the clubs fortunes
is going to be hard, it will take time and there will be lots of
false dawns - PG has never done any of this before.
>
--- End Quote ---
See? I'm not alone -- maybe this just puts is more clearly.
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