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#Post#: 18831--------------------------------------------------
Re: We deserve better
DIR By: honkytonk
Date: March 12, 2019, 5:20 am
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23 blokes in quartered shirts had an off day Sunday. That is
the thing that bothers me more.
#Post#: 18843--------------------------------------------------
Re: We deserve better
DIR By: Quinky
Date: March 12, 2019, 7:16 am
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--- Quote from: Cookie link ---
>
> I'm clearly going to have to repeat myself (again), Quinky.
>
> I didn't think Barnes had a bad game. Nor do I think he (or
anyone) thought he cost us the game. But some of the stuff
people are complaining about every team does. Some was down to
the touch judge. Some down to the TMO.
>
> And as honkytonk said and as Blucherquin pointed out, we
wouldn't be talking about him if we'd won and the implication of
him having a bad game is that it was his fault, not ours.
>
> Don't understand this thread at all. It wasn't that long ago
that we had a thread lauding Barnes. Everyone can have an off
day, although I didn't think he did.
>
--- End Quote ---
I see. It's just that in an earlier post you say that posters
are implying that Barnes cost us the game. Now you say that "Nor
do I think he (or anyone) thought he cost us the game." Perhaps
that's what's confusing.
Sure, people are complaining about what lots of teams do. People
complain every week about scrum put-ins, missed offsides etc.
People gripe, regardless of which team has won. And the fact
that "every team" does it, hardly makes it right. As far as I'm
aware, the TMO can't call out every missed offence - so it's
hard to pass the blame there. TNOs don't call crooked scrum
feeds, for example.
There may well have been a thread lauding Barnes, and he's been
praised in this thread for his refereeing - but Sunday he was
very poor. As you say: "Everyone can have an off day".
#Post#: 18845--------------------------------------------------
Re: We deserve better
DIR By: DOK
Date: March 12, 2019, 7:40 am
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At a "Meet the ref" evening, Wayne Barnes said he didn't have
time to check the straightness of the put in because he had too
many other things to check, some of which affected players'
welfare. You'd have thought he could ask the TMO to monitor it,
if all else failed, but I suspect it's just an excuse.
#Post#: 18849--------------------------------------------------
Re: We deserve better
DIR By: Chipstead Quin
Date: March 12, 2019, 8:32 am
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--- Quote from: Cookie link ---
>
> It just all looks like sour grapes, that's all. I didn't think
Barnes was bad at all. Some people have prejudices against him
going way back that they really need to let go.
>
--- End Quote ---
Blimey Cookie , cant start putting time limits on Grudges , that
will never catch on .. how are the other Home Nations going to
get fired up when they play England ?
#Post#: 18854--------------------------------------------------
Re: We deserve better
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: March 12, 2019, 8:47 am
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[quote=Cookie]I just think it's ridiculous to say 'the ref
didn't cost us the game' but 'here's a long list of things he
got wrong'.[/quote]
Quite. You might believe it if that list contained some things
we got away with or where the opposition were treated harshly.
Never, does though.
#Post#: 18855--------------------------------------------------
Re: We deserve better
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: March 12, 2019, 8:56 am
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Of one thing I am sure, Sir had a better game than 23 Quarters
wearing players....but then, thats not saying much.
#Post#: 18858--------------------------------------------------
Re: We deserve better
DIR By: Fearless Fred
Date: March 12, 2019, 9:41 am
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--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> Another of my pet gripes with all refs is calling for a
scrum-half to "use it" then five or six seconds later calling it
again. I thought there was a time allowed (3.8 seconds or some
other strange figure) after which the ball could be played by
anyone? How often is that enforced?
>
--- End Quote ---
YES! I think it's 5 seconds after the ref says "use it" (or in
Nigel Owens case: "Yeuse!"). If the scrum half (or whoever is at
the back of the ruck) hasn't used the ball, it's supposed to be
turn-over & a scrum to the defending team. However I've never
seen any game where the sanction has actually been applied...
#Post#: 18860--------------------------------------------------
Re: We deserve better
DIR By: Chipstead Quin
Date: March 12, 2019, 10:03 am
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--- Quote from: Fearless Fred link ---
>
> YES! I think it's 5 seconds after the ref says "use it" (or in
Nigel Owens case: "Yeuse!"). If the scrum half (or whoever is at
the back of the ruck) hasn't used the ball, it's supposed to be
turn-over & a scrum to the defending team. However I've never
seen any game where the sanction has actually been applied...
>
--- End Quote ---
The cop out here is that if the scrum / maul starts edging
forward again within 3 - 5 secs then a new instruction applies .
I think that's more often seen in mauls than scrums though . The
ref shouts 'use it'.. Scrum half just hangs on a sec defending
side think its about to come out lift heads and start looking
instead of pushing so side with ball have another nibble and it
moves forward again .. so original 'use it' is superceded
because the maul is moving again.. usually when it grinds to a
halt second time its removed quickly while defence is retreating
#Post#: 18862--------------------------------------------------
Re: We deserve better
DIR By: TomBuckQuin
Date: March 12, 2019, 10:13 am
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--- Quote from: Chipstead Quin link ---
>
> The cop out here is that if the scrum / maul starts edging
forward again within 3 - 5 secs then a new instruction applies .
I think that's more often seen in mauls than scrums though . The
ref shouts 'use it'.. Scrum half just hangs on a sec defending
side think its about to come out lift heads and start looking
instead of pushing so side with ball have another nibble and it
moves forward again .. so original 'use it' is superceded
because the maul is moving again.. usually when it grinds to a
halt second time its removed quickly while defence is retreating
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't think this is quite true actually. Mauls always have a
2-stop rule. The first time a maul grinds to a halt, the ref
tells the scrum half that that is "once!" Then the maul is
allowed to regenerate momentum if it is able to. If it doesn't
get any go-forward he'll shout "use it" at that point. If it
does move forward after the first halt then when it stops the
second time, that's when the ref will tell the scrummy to "use
it".
#Post#: 18863--------------------------------------------------
Re: We deserve better
DIR By: Chipstead Quin
Date: March 12, 2019, 10:27 am
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--- Quote from: TomBuckQuin link ---
>
> I don't think this is quite true actually. Mauls always have a
2-stop rule. The first time a maul grinds to a halt, the ref
tells the scrum half that that is "once!" Then the maul is
allowed to regenerate momentum if it is able to. If it doesn't
get any go-forward he'll shout "use it" at that point. If it
does move forward after the first halt then when it stops the
second time, that's when the ref will tell the scrummy to "use
it".
>
--- End Quote ---
Yep , I agree and we are saying the same thing - its just that
the use of 'once ' is a newly adopted term but doesn't actually
figure in the laws , -basically you can have a couple of goes
providing it moves forward ,see 14 / 15 of the Maul Law
HTML https://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=16&language=EN
(Reasonable time is defined elsewhere as 3-5 secs)
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