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#Post#: 18180--------------------------------------------------
Re: Have Saracens broken salary cap rules?
DIR By: DOK
Date: March 4, 2019, 3:39 pm
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The question for me is really "Who paid what for the houses
involved?"
Say it's a 50/50 split in shares between a player and Nigel
Wray.
Say the house is worth £1m, and each put in £500,000 to purchase
said house.
Dividends from the property company will be paid 50/50.
Presumably should the property be sold, that too would be split
50/50.
I can't see any problem with this.
However, say Nigel Wray paid for the house and now the player
gets dividends, loans from the company and a 50% share of the
house selling price.
Clearly, that's a different kettle of fish.
#Post#: 18182--------------------------------------------------
Re: Have Saracens broken salary cap rules?
DIR By: DOK
Date: March 4, 2019, 3:59 pm
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SARACENS CLUB STATEMENT: CO-INVESTMENT PARTNERSHIPS BETWEEN THE
SARACENS OWNER AND PLAYERS
HTML https://www.saracens.com/news-article/club-statement-co-investment-partnerships-between-the-saracens-owner-and-players
"We are encouraged that many of our senior players are exploring
business opportunities away from rugby."
It must simplify matters that every senior player is exploring
the same business opportunities away from rugby. So no-one wants
to be a cheese maker or run a pub or make artisan beer. They all
want to be directors in companies that invest in property. What
are the odds?
And when you look at the "senior players" involved, I'm sure
it's just a fluke that they would be the ones you might think
the club would have a problem properly fitting under the salary
cap. I'm shocked Alex Goode (born 1988) has not opted for this
company benefits scheme, he's 3 years older than Farrell, I
think he's missing out on a retirement opportunity.
#Post#: 18183--------------------------------------------------
Re: Have Saracens broken salary cap rules?
DIR By: Mayor West
Date: March 4, 2019, 4:20 pm
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You’ve asked the questions I was asking DOK. Is there any way
you can tell who introduced what amounts of money to the
companies or how the players came into the companies after their
inception. Why do Wray and his associates have anything to do
with these companies. I take it Duncan Saville isn’t involved
with Danny Care Ltd, or any other Harlequin F.C. Director or
associate.
#Post#: 18186--------------------------------------------------
Re: Have Saracens broken salary cap rules?
DIR By: Blucherquin
Date: March 4, 2019, 4:41 pm
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Sadly this quotes Andy Goode which means they’ve gone to the
biggest rent a gob moron in world rugby.
But it’s otherwise interesting....
HTML https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-6770759/Premiership-clubs-former-players-join-calls-Saracens-salary-cap-inquiry.html
To quote a bit for the lazy:
“Sportsmail understands that the PRL’s salary-cap manager,
Andrew Rogers, has been making inquiries specific to Saracens in
the last few months.
It is thought that he has asked a number of rival clubs to
disclose offers they have made to high-profile players,
including Saracens squad members.
Rogers is said to be trying to establish whether players have
turned down higher offers than they receive at their current
clubs, raising the prospect that they are being remunerated via
other methods.
It is possible the extent of Wray’s arrangements with players
may extend much wider than initially thought.
Sportsmail has also been told of another major England star who
struck a property deal with Wray, and still owed the 70-year-old
businessman hundreds of thousands of pounds when he moved
clubs.“
#Post#: 18193--------------------------------------------------
Re: Have Saracens broken salary cap rules?
DIR By: DOK
Date: March 4, 2019, 6:10 pm
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I'm hoping the difference between the last time Saracens were
under the microscope and this is that this time a national
newspaper is shining a light on the dark side of the salary cap.
When it was all just the PRL, it was all just easily swept under
the carpet. Can they do that now though? If the Mail spent 4
months putting this together, they've got a lot more than what
you could get searching the Companies House register for a day!
I suspect we'll see some more interesting revelations before
this is through.
#Post#: 18197--------------------------------------------------
Re: Have Saracens broken salary cap rules?
DIR By: Bucksquin
Date: March 5, 2019, 1:26 am
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--- Quote from: DOK link ---
>
> The question for me is really "Who paid what for the houses
involved?"
>
> Say it's a 50/50 split in shares between a player and Nigel
Wray.
> Say the house is worth £1m, and each put in £500,000 to
purchase said house.
> Dividends from the property company will be paid 50/50.
> Presumably should the property be sold, that too would be
split 50/50.
> I can't see any problem with this.
>
> However, say Nigel Wray paid for the house and now the player
gets dividends, loans from the company and a 50% share of the
house selling price.
> Clearly, that's a different kettle of fish.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, but what if:
Wray lent the player the money for his 50% at zero interest
The player's shareholding automatically increases,
incrementally, over the period of time he is at the club
#Post#: 18198--------------------------------------------------
Re: Have Saracens broken salary cap rules?
DIR By: Bucksquin
Date: March 5, 2019, 1:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
And, do the salary cap regulations include or exclude monies and
benefits paid directly or indirectly to players by a club's
major shareholders or their direct or indirect business
interests ('major' presumably being defined in some way)? This
is clearly an important question.
#Post#: 18200--------------------------------------------------
Re: Have Saracens broken salary cap rules?
DIR By: Mayor West
Date: March 5, 2019, 2:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I remember a loophole where you could borrow money from your
company as a loan without paying tax on it but never actually
pay anything back as there was no time limit. You could then
invest that and so on and so on....
#Post#: 18204--------------------------------------------------
Re: Have Saracens broken salary cap rules?
DIR By: A222Quin
Date: March 5, 2019, 2:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I bet the findings will be that they haven't done anything wrong
by the letter of the law but they'll have kicked the arris out
of the spirit of the cap etc.
#Post#: 18205--------------------------------------------------
Re: Have Saracens broken salary cap rules?
DIR By: raedarius
Date: March 5, 2019, 3:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Blucherquin link ---
>
> Sadly this quotes Andy Goode which means they’ve gone to the
biggest rent a gob moron in world rugby.
>
> But it’s otherwise interesting....
>
>
HTML https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-6770759/Premiership-clubs-former-players-join-calls-Saracens-salary-cap-inquiry.html
>
> To quote a bit for the lazy:
>
> “Sportsmail understands that the PRL’s salary-cap manager,
Andrew Rogers, has been making inquiries specific to Saracens in
the last few months.
>
> It is thought that he has asked a number of rival clubs to
disclose offers they have made to high-profile players,
including Saracens squad members.
>
> Rogers is said to be trying to establish whether players have
turned down higher offers than they receive at their current
clubs, raising the prospect that they are being remunerated via
other methods.
>
> It is possible the extent of Wray’s arrangements with players
may extend much wider than initially thought.
>
> Sportsmail has also been told of another major England star
who struck a property deal with Wray, and still owed the
70-year-old businessman hundreds of thousands of pounds when he
moved clubs.“
>
--- End Quote ---
At least they had the decency (odd word for the Mail, I know) to
go with a bald Goode photo.
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