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#Post#: 447--------------------------------------------------
Variant - Pope's Chess
By: Yuryavic Date: February 10, 2018, 8:33 pm
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Hello,
This is a variant I created myself.
I have been enamored with the game of Chess. It is the product
of many years of refinement and it is after those many years of
trial and error that the modern game of Chess has evolved. As a
product of years, and greater minds then myself, it is a very
highly regarded game, and yet, I still want to make the
ambitious attempt to make it better.
I originally shared the rules for the game on reddit
/r/chessvariants a couple of years ago
HTML https://www.reddit.com/r/chessvariants/comments/2xutys/new_variant_popes_chess/
I am restating the rules while also including more of the theory
behind my decisions and the rule set.
THEORY
To make changes without including the reason for those changes,
is a bit chaotic and makes the changes easily dismissed. So I
will begin with the problems I see in modern Chess before
describing my remedy. Each of these problems will be resolved
with my changes after all problems are outlined.
[list]
[li] Chess can end in a draw
Any game which can end with no winner has a problem. If you just
spent all that time going head-to-head and ending up drawing you
have wasted your time. Yes, you saw two closely matched
individuals vying for dominance and displaying their equal
footing, but ultimately you are dissatisfied. Draws are nice
because there is no loser. But when it comes down to it we want
and need a victor. We want the cold pangs of death to sound and
a dominant victor arising in the end. Even if both parties do
tie they don't end the whole competition that way. They continue
to battle it out until one stands victorious over the other.
Chess needs a winner and a loser. No more draws.
[/li]
[li] White has 1st turn advantage.
Especially considering Draws are no longer possible. It is very
important to remove any unfair advantages that either player
has. Statistically (varying depending on time of statistics
taken), White wins roughly 55% of games played.
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-move_advantage_in_chess
This
favoring of one over the other just isn't fair. To phrase it
another way: Black is always playing catch-up. White moves then
Blacks catches up. 55 moves in White make their 56th move and
only then does Black make their 56th move. Black is eternally
attempting to catch up and never moves ahead. While White is
always ahead and never behind.
Chess needs to get rid of 1st-turn advantage.
[/li]
[li] Movement isn't harmonious
Okay this is more subjective, but some pieces are not meshing
well with the rest of the game or are built up on rules to hide
weaknesses in the game. In the clearest order: The Queen is too
powerful/important, the Bishops are stuck on single color/cannot
reach all squares, Pawns have a special 2-square move, &
Castling is a special move for 2 pieces.
The Queen holds too much power on the board. Where the Queen is,
is also where your chance of winning is. This is not entirely
bad, but I believe the game can get deeper if most of the game
play doesn't revolve around one piece.
If a piece like the Bishop is stuck to only half of the
available squares it isn't a good thing. Now an early
predecessor to the Bishop, the Elephant actually had it worse,
being stuck to just 8 of 64 squares. Neither of these is good
and so should be addressed.
The very fact of pieces having special rules only hampers a
game's cohesiveness. Optimally there should be a consistent rule
for all piece's movement that doesn't change depending on the
square a piece is on. The Pawn, King & Rook each have special
movement rules and should be addressed. Now I do think that the
Pawn's promotion rule should be kept as it is a reward for
reaching the end, and not just a way to speed up the opening
game as with the 2-square move, or to make it easier to hide a
King as with Castling (although you'll see that with changes
that this is also not even needed).
Pieces should be fit for the game and consistent.
[/li]
[/list]
RULES/CHANGES FROM generic Chess
Now we have a similar starting point, here are the changes I
have to fix the above issues. Note I'm listing them in reverse
order from above, and bolded the individual changes
[list]
[li] I've given the Queen and Bishop new movement rules (same
pieces, but new names and patterns). I've also removed the
special movement rule of Castling, and Pawns only ever move 1
square never 2.
The Queen is replaced by the Pope. The Pope combines the
movement rules of the Bishop and the King. This means it can
move 1 square in any direction and also run along the diagonals.
There is overlap with those two definitions, so it can also be
worded as 1 square on the orthogonality, and runs along the
diagonals. However, it is probably easiest to describe using the
1st definition of King & Bishop. I've found its value just
slightly higher than a Rook, but that value fades in the
endgame.
The Bishop is replaced by the Cardinal. The Cardinal walks one
square on the orthogonality like the Pope and can jump akin to
the Elephant: to the 2nd square on the diagonal. This leaves the
a piece similar in strength to the Knight that has influence on
a maximum of 8 squares. Its movement is hardly as graceful and
is a bit more brutish. But I find it effective nevertheless.
Castling and the Pawn's opening double move are removed.
[/li]
[li] To remove 1st-turn advantage each player now moves two
pieces a turn except for the very first turn in which the 1st
player, white, only moves once. This is so the player with the
higher turn count is always switching. On turn 1 White moves
once and then Black moves twice, then White moves twice for a
total of 3. This flip-flop happens until the game is resolved.
Neither player has an extended advantage. While this may come
out to a slight advantage for one side I am not capable of
deciphering which. As far as I can tell it is equal.
Now just as a note, you must move two separate pieces, one at a
time. Not one piece twice or the two pieces through each other.
Each move in turn must be legal.
[/li]
[li] Finally with the above changes the victory conditions have
also changed. Instead of playing to mate the opposing King, you
play to achieve one or more of the following conditions, in
order:
[list type=decimal]
[li]Capture the opposing King[/li]
[li]Force the opponent to be unable to legally finish a
turn[/li]
[li]Move your King to your opponent's base row.[/li]
[/list]
When these interfere with each other, the order declares winner.
So...
Anytime you can take your opponent's King, even if you cannot
move a second time, you still win.
Even if you can move your King to your opponent's base row, if
you can't also move a second piece to finish your turn, you
lose.
[/li]
[/list]
My experience playing with these rules creates a different paced
game then regular Chess. Because of the differences, pushing
Pawns ahead to gain ground is paramount. Actually capturing the
King is quite hard with the double move, so it is more a fight
to push your King forward without losing pieces, instead of
grabbing ground from which to strike at the opposing King. I do
think it has more depth than regular Chess although it moves a
bit slower. I definitely recommend giving it a try and I would
love to hear your thoughts and criticisms.
#Post#: 450--------------------------------------------------
Re: Variant - Pope's Chess
By: John_Lewis Date: February 11, 2018, 2:35 pm
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I find your solution to these problems fascinating. I agree with
your assessment and have even created variants to address the
exact same problems, but they didn't involve creating new
pieces, rather I removed rules from Orthodox Chess until I had a
simple version of chess.
Do you have example games of Pope Chess?
#Post#: 451--------------------------------------------------
Re: Variant - Pope's Chess
By: Greg Strong Date: February 11, 2018, 6:56 pm
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Just to note, your two new pieces, the Pope and Cardinal come
from historic Shogi games. The Pope is a promoted bishop in
modern Shogi and is called a Dragon Horse. The Cardinal is from
Chu Shogi and is called a Phoenix (also present in Chess with
Different Armies where Betza called it a "Waffle", but I use
"Phoenix" instead.) The name "Cardinal" usually refers to a
Bishop + Knight compound as in Grand Chess. I am not familiar
with the name "Pope" being used before.
#Post#: 540--------------------------------------------------
Re: Variant - Pope's Chess
By: Yuryavic Date: March 4, 2018, 9:44 pm
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[quote author=Greg Strong link=topic=67.msg451#msg451
date=1518397010]
Just to note, your two new pieces, the Pope and Cardinal come
from historic Shogi games. The Pope is a promoted bishop in
modern Shogi and is called a Dragon Horse. The Cardinal is from
Chu Shogi and is called a Phoenix (also present in Chess with
Different Armies where Betza called it a "Waffle", but I use
"Phoenix" instead.) The name "Cardinal" usually refers to a
Bishop + Knight compound as in Grand Chess. I am not familiar
with the name "Pope" being used before.
[/quote]
Yeah, I didn't think I was reinventing the wheel with the
movement patterns. I did know the promoted Bishop moved like
that in Shogi but I actually was inspired by this
site:
HTML http://www.pathguy.com/chess/ChessVar.htm
(needs Java
enabled) for both the movement and name of the Pope. One or more
of the variants on that site has a Pope piece that I basically
borrowed for this.
Once I had decided on the Pope, my Bishop replacement
thematically needed a church order name and Cardinal seemed best
to fit. I've seen so many political maneuvers having Chess
references that a Cardinal seemed best to fit the bill.
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Schism
in particular is
the historical period that inspired the theme.
[quote author=John_Lewis link=topic=67.msg450#msg450
date=1518381320]
I find your solution to these problems fascinating. I agree with
your assessment and have even created variants to address the
exact same problems, but they didn't involve creating new
pieces, rather I removed rules from Orthodox Chess until I had a
simple version of chess.
Do you have example games of Pope Chess?
[/quote]
I tried without changing the Bishops and Queens, but the double
move forces a more methodical advance of pieces. It is
definitely different and I don't expect it to ever encompass
Chess, but I do think it is objectively deeper. I find it much
harder to plan ahead as there is so much more that can happen.
I recorded a game I recently played and I have the notation
below:
[list type=decimal]
[li]e3 | f6, Cf7[/li]
[li]Pf3, Ne2 | d6, c6[/li]
[li]d3, Nc3 | d5, e6[/li]
[li]Kd2, g3 | e5, Ce6[/li]
[li]e4, Ce3 | d4, Kd7[/li]
[li]Nd1, Cc5 | Na6, Pa5[/li]
[li]Ca3, c3 | Ne7, R(a)c8[/li]
[li]g4, h3 | h6, b6[/li]
[li]b3, Ng3 | dxc3, c5[/li]
[li]Ke3, Rc1 | Rc6, b5[/li]
[li]Nxc3, Rg1 | Kd6, b4[/li]
[li]Ca4, Nd5 | Pb5, R(c)c8[/li]
[li]Nxe7, Nf5 | Kd7, C(e)xe7[/li]
[li]h4, Ch3 | Rc7, Rd8[/li]
[li]d4, R(g)d1 | exd4, Ke6[/li]
[li]Kf4, Cg3 | c4, Rc5[/li]
[li]g5, Pg4 | fxg5, Kf6[/li]
[li]e6, hxg5 | Cxg5, Kg6[/li]
[li]Nh4, Pf3 | Kh7, Rf8[/li]
[li]Nf5, Pe4 | Cxf5, g6[/li]
[li]Ke3, Pxd4 | Cg5, Cd5[/li]
[li]Ke4, Pxc5 | Cxc5, c3[/li]
[li]Cc2, Rd6 | C(c)e7, Nc5[/li]
[li]Kd5, Ce4 | Nb7, Cf5[/li]
[li]Rxg6, Rh1 | Cg5, Rd8[/li]
[li]e6, Ke5 | Cxg6, Pe8[/li]
[li]Cxg6, Kf6 | Pxg6, Cg5[/li]
[li]Ke5, Re1 | Cf5, Rd6[/li]
[li]Ke4, e7 | Ce5, Pxe4#[/li]
[/list]
It was actually the first time it ended in the Capture of the
King with someone not just giving up. Most of the time it ends
with the King reaching the other side hence why both Kings were
charging. (P is Pope, C is Cardinal; I still marked the end of
game with # even though it isn't Mate)
#Post#: 593--------------------------------------------------
Re: Variant - Pope's Chess
By: ubersketch Date: March 10, 2018, 5:28 pm
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Weird, I was just making a Chess variant where I had a Wazir and
Bishop compound called the Pope. ???
Anyways, I made some Alfaerie graphics for it.
HTML https://raw.githubusercontent.com/TsavyPrince/alfaerieomega/master/bpope.gifhttps://raw.githubusercontent.com/TsavyPrince/alfaerieomega/master/wpope.gif
Of course, there's already graphics for the Cardinal.
HTML https://raw.githubusercontent.com/TsavyPrince/alfaerieomega/master/bcardinal1.gifhttps://raw.githubusercontent.com/TsavyPrince/alfaerieomega/master/wcardinal1.gif<br
/>
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